# 30 kg per kg bodyweight! LD50 for sucrose seems whack **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 4, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-kg-per-kg-bodyweight-ld50-for-sucrose-seems-whack/559483 "2010-11-04T17:32:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-kg-per-kg-bodyweight-ld50-for-sucrose-seems-whack/559483/1 "2010-11-04T17:32:52Z")
In the wikipedia article on LD50, the example for sucrose seems absurd. How can you administer 30 kg of sucrose per kg bodyweight? Drop a bag on the rat? > **[Median lethal dose | Examples](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LD50#Examples)** > > Note: Comparing substances (especially drugs) to each other by LD50 can be misleading in many cases due (in part) to differences in effective dose (ED50). Therefore, it is more useful to compare such substances by therapeutic index, which is simply the ratio of LD50 to ED50.\[citation needed\] > The following examples are listed in reference to LD50 values, in descending order, and accompanied by LC50 values, {bracketed}, when appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-kg-per-kg-bodyweight-ld50-for-sucrose-seems-whack/559483/2 "2010-11-04T17:36:48Z")
29,700,000,000 ng = 29.7 g, so the lethal dose is about 1/34 of the body mass: you’d have a full stomach with that amount inside you, but I suppose it could be done. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-kg-per-kg-bodyweight-ld50-for-sucrose-seems-whack/559483/3 "2010-11-04T17:46:53Z")
I prefer the “drop a bag on the rat” explanation, myself. Say a rat weighs about 400g - a 30lb sack of sugar ought to the job nicely. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-kg-per-kg-bodyweight-ld50-for-sucrose-seems-whack/559483/4 "2010-11-04T18:19:49Z")
> [@naita](#): > > In the wikipedia article on LD50, the example for sucrose seems absurd. How can you administer 30 kg of sucrose per kg bodyweight? Drop a bag on the rat? > > [Median lethal dose - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LD50#Examples) I think your math is off by a factor of 1000 – as **Giles** points out, 29,700,000,000 ng/kg is about 30 _grams_ per kilogram. My question is, what would actually happen if you consumed a lethally huge dose of sugar? We know how lethal doses of things like water and salt kill you … what does sugar do at a lethal dose? ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-kg-per-kg-bodyweight-ld50-for-sucrose-seems-whack/559483/5 "2010-11-04T18:21:16Z")
> [@naita](#): > > In the wikipedia article on LD50, the example for sucrose seems absurd. How can you administer 30 kg of sucrose per kg bodyweight? Drop a bag on the rat? > > [Median lethal dose - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LD50#Examples) I think your math is off by a factor of 1000 – as **Giles** points out, 29,700,000,000 ng is about 30 _grams_\* per kilogram. My question is, what would actually happen if you consumed a lethally huge dose of sugar? We know how lethal doses of things like water and salt kill you … what does sugar do at a lethal dose? ETA: OK, my second question is, have they actually determined the LD50 of sucrose experimentally, or is this just a guess? ---
**Author:** ![awldune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@awldune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/awldune)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-kg-per-kg-bodyweight-ld50-for-sucrose-seems-whack/559483/6 "2010-11-04T18:56:31Z")
So if you weigh 150lbs you would have to eat 4.5lbs of pure sugar to have a 50% chance of dying. > **[Hyperglycemia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperglycemia)** > > Hyperglycemia is a condition where unusually high amount of glucose is present in blood. It is defined as blood glucose level exceeding 6.9 mmol/L (125 mg/dL) after fasting for 8 hours or 10 mmol/L (180 mg/dL) 2 hours after eating. > Patients with diabetes are oriented to avoid exceeding the recommended postprandial threshold of 160 mg/dL (8.89 mmol/L) for optimal glycemic control. Values of blood glucose higher than 160 mg/dL are classified as 'very high' hyperglycemia, a condition in which an ex... > [@](#): > > Acute hyperglycemia involving glucose levels that are extremely high is a medical emergency and can rapidly produce serious complications (such as fluid loss through osmotic diuresis). I think the basic idea is that your kidneys go crazy and you become very dehydrated. I doubt it is entirely healthy for the kidneys, either. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-kg-per-kg-bodyweight-ld50-for-sucrose-seems-whack/559483/7 "2010-11-04T19:40:30Z")
Of course I’m wrong by a factor of 1000. That’ll teach me to taunt the people who think having kilograms as the base unit is bad. My brain was so stuck in the “nano” means a factor of 10^9 mode it took me a while to accept your replies were right. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-kg-per-kg-bodyweight-ld50-for-sucrose-seems-whack/559483/8 "2010-11-04T19:43:33Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > ETA: OK, my second question is, have they actually determined the LD50 of sucrose experimentally, or is this just a guess? The table mentions animal (rat) and administration route (oral), so it’s probably determined experimentally. Now I have to worry about accidentally eating two kilogram bags of sugar. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-kg-per-kg-bodyweight-ld50-for-sucrose-seems-whack/559483/9 "2010-11-04T19:50:06Z")
_crunch_ _munch_ _chew_ _gulp_ Oops. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-kg-per-kg-bodyweight-ld50-for-sucrose-seems-whack/559483/10 "2010-11-04T20:47:15Z")
> [@awldune](#): > > So if you weigh 150lbs you would have to eat 4.5lbs of pure sugar to have a 50% chance of dying. > > [Hyperglycemia - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperglycemia) > > I think the basic idea is that your kidneys go crazy and you become very dehydrated. I doubt it is entirely healthy for the kidneys, either. 4.5 lbs of sugar would probably just kill you by sucking all of the water out of the rest of your body by osmosis. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-kg-per-kg-bodyweight-ld50-for-sucrose-seems-whack/559483/11 "2010-11-05T05:28:30Z")
You won’t die if you drink several gallons of diet soda at the same time to balance things out. ---
**Author:** ![Random\_Design](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58f4c7/32.png) [@Random\_Design](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random_Design)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-kg-per-kg-bodyweight-ld50-for-sucrose-seems-whack/559483/12 "2010-11-05T09:49:49Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > I think your math is off by a factor of 1000 – as **Giles** points out, 29,700,000,000 ng is about 30 _grams_\* per kilogram. > > My question is, what would actually happen if you consumed a lethally huge dose of sugar? We know how lethal doses of things like water and salt kill you … what does sugar do at a lethal dose? > > ETA: OK, my second question is, have they actually determined the LD50 of sucrose experimentally, or is this just a guess? Isn’t the term “lethal dose” self-explanatory? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-kg-per-kg-bodyweight-ld50-for-sucrose-seems-whack/559483/13 "2010-11-05T15:03:56Z")
> [@Random\_Design](#): > > Isn’t the term “lethal dose” self-explanatory? 😕 i still have the mental :smack:image of dropping a whole bag of sugar on the poor little rattie …