# 30 Nation Coalition for War **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 19, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526 "2003-03-19T13:29:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526/21 "2003-03-19T19:27:07Z")
Innocent question: How many of the countries in this coalition are contributing military forces, other strategic help (airbases, equipment), or money to the war effort? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526/22 "2003-03-19T19:48:41Z")
The French have said that the US can use their airspace and have said that if Saddam does use WMDs, they’ll be more than happy to come to our aid. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526/23 "2003-03-19T19:54:15Z")
I believe that Jordan and Syria are on the do-not-mention list, as I seem to recall having heard they were supporting the US in this, and then they suddenly stopped being mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526/24 "2003-03-19T20:07:57Z")
How about Portugal? Their PM was standing up with Bush and Blair and the Spanish guy on Sunday, but now they aren’t on the list. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526/25 "2003-03-19T20:14:58Z")
By request. Ladies and Gentlemen, the Coalition of the Unwilling: Algeria Andorra Angola Antigua and Barbuda Argentina Armenia Australia Bahamas, The Bahrain Bangladesh Barbados Belarus Belgium Belize Benin Bhutan Bolivia Bosnia and Herzegovina Botswana Brazil Brunei Bulgaria Burkina Faso Burma Burundi Cambodia Cameroon Canada Cape Verde Central African Republic Chad Chile China (see note Comoros Congo (Brazzaville) Congo (Kinshasa) Costa Rica Côte d’Ivoire Croatia Cuba Cyprus Djibouti Dominica Dominican Republic Ecuador Egypt Equatorial Guinea Fiji Finland France Gabon Gambia, The Germany Ghana Greece Grenada Guatemala Guinea Guinea-Bissau Guyana Haiti Holy See Honduras India Indonesia Iran Ireland Israel Jamaica Jordan Kazakhstan Kenya Kiribati Korea, North Kuwait Kyrgyzstan Laos Lebanon Lesotho Liberia Libya Liechtenstein Luxembourg Madagascar Malawi Malaysia Maldives Mali Malta Marshall Islands Mauritania Mauritius Mexico Micronesia, Federated States of Moldova Monaco Mongolia Morocco Mozambique Namibia Nauru Nepal New Zealand Niger Nigeria Norway Oman Pakistan Palau Panama Papua New Guinea Paraguay Peru Portugal Qatar Russia Rwanda Saint Kitts and Nevis Saint Lucia Samoa San Marino Sao Tome and Principe Saudi Arabia Senegal Seychelles Sierra Leone Singapore Slovenia Solomon Islands Somalia South Africa Sri Lanka Sudan Suriname Swaziland Sweden Switzerland Syria Tajikistan Tanzania Thailand the Grenadines Togo Tonga Trinidad and Tobago Tunisia Turkmenistan Tuvalu Uganda Ukraine United Arab Emirates Uruguay Vanuatu Venezuela Vietnam Yemen Yugoslavia Zambia Zimbabwe ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526/26 "2003-03-19T20:44:56Z")
``` angent ``` I wonder if Canada would have joined the coalition if not for Bush. Many here have felt he has repeatedly snubbed us and treated us unfairly (softwood lumber, “Arab-looking” Canadian citizens and residents at border crossings). Please note, I’m not here to whine. I think much of this has been blown out of proportion. I’m just curious how much of our decision is philosophical and how much is political payback. The last poll I saw here showed 38% supported war even without a UN mandate. I imagine our politicians and spin-doctors could have increased that if they had tried. ---
**Author:** ![Asylum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@Asylum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asylum)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526/27 "2003-03-19T21:19:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*Considering the world has about [192 nations](http://www.countrywatch.com/@school/number_countries.htm) all together (plus or minus 2, depending on how you want to count them), an alliance of 30 is rather embarassing – that still leaves 85% of the world that think the war is a bad idea. \*\* Um, no. That leaves 85% percent of the world who think that a war in Iraq is a bad idea, _or_ who aren’t taking sides. I’m sure that the number of nations that oppose Gulf War II is greater than the 30 the U.S. has lined up in support but I’m sure it is significantly less than 160. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526/28 "2003-03-19T22:30:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Asylum \* > Um, no. That leaves 85% percent of the world who think that a war in Iraq is a bad idea, _or_ who aren’t taking sides. Well, since the United States decided to back down and not bring the matter for a UN vote, we won’t know who would have voted against the second resolution, and who would have abstained. But let’s say we take the “non-willing” and split it down the middle – 50% oppose the war, 50% decided to sit on their hands and avoid pissing off anyone. That’s 81 nations for each side, or 42% opposed to Bush’s 15% pro. Still not a flattering number, however you slice it. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526/29 "2003-03-19T23:51:02Z")
Footnote, **MrVisible** : the Marshall Islands, Palau, and the Federation of Micronesia are US “Associate Nations” whose Security policy is run by the USA and whose economy in one case is heavily based on being the target for US missile tests (Kwajalein Attoll). Of course, they also add up to the population of two small towns, so they really don’t tip the balance. **Debaser, SimonX** : Japan’s “Self Defense Agency” is a rather large military that puts up the legal fiction of not being one (by among other things having all the personnel be Civil Service employees). The “Maritime SD Force” actually have been rotating several destroyers for the past year to the Arabian Sea supporting the US fleet in Afghanistan operations. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526/30 "2003-03-19T23:54:14Z")
I am sure that our brave soldiers and sailors will sleep better tonight knowing that the government of El Salvador supports the US war. 😃 PS When discussing these 30 nations that are in the coaltion of the “willing”, keep in mind a couple of things. First, as far as I know, only two of them (Britain and Australia) are actually willing to commit troops to the conflict. And in every case, it is the governments of these countries that have expressed support, NOT the people who actually live in these countries. (For example, 71% of all Aussies oppose going to war without a UN mandate.) ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526/31 "2003-03-20T00:28:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Honey \* > \*\*I didn’t see Canada on the list. What gives? ☹ \*\* A number of people have commented on Canada’s position. What gives? The Canadian Goverment has said it will not support a war without UN approval. Their position is that inspections were beginning to make progress, and that ‘Regime Change’ is insupportible. The Canadian Prime Minister was quoted as saying that we can’t dispose of governments we don’t like. If we start, “Who is next? Show me the list.” They have been accused of risking the long-standing relationship with their most important trading partner. The overwhelming public opinion in Canada, as well as the opinion of members of parliamnet, seems to agree with the government’s position. The ones who want us behind the US mostly want them to go along so as to preserve the relationship with the US. Some, of course, do believe the war is a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526/32 "2003-03-20T00:41:06Z")
**Mr. Visible** , I notice that you put Jordan on the list. that’s a little misleading when you consider [this](http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-18-us-forces-usat_x.htm): > [@](#): > > Some of the Pentagon’s most specific information on Saddam’s whereabouts has come from Jordan’s intelligence agencies, Pentagon and Jordanian officials say. Jordanian special forces, along with British and Australian commandos, have been operating inside Iraq for weeks, Pentagon officials say. Although Jordan is publicly opposed to war in Iraq, King Abdullah has quietly allowed Jordanian special forces to train and work alongside their American counterparts, Jordanian officials say. Sure, they’re not publicly supporting the US, but that doesn’t sound like the actions of someone completly opposed. ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526/33 "2003-03-20T00:50:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 5-HT \* > \*\ ***Mr. Visible** , I notice that you put Jordan on the list. that’s a little misleading when you consider [this](http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-18-us-forces-usat_x.htm): > Sure, they’re not publicly supporting the US, but that doesn’t sound like the actions of someone completly opposed. \*\* According to my radio (CBC’s Ottawa Morning program), the Jordanian government supports the US, partly becasue of a billion-dollar cash-for-cooperation grant, but the Jordanian public are fervently opposed. As a result, its suspected that Jordan is in the ‘Secret 15’. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526/34 "2003-03-20T01:03:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MrVisible \* > \*\*By request. > > Ladies and Gentlemen, the Coalition of the Unwilling:… > \*\* Your list is suspect at best. Slovenia and Croatia I noticed right away: They are in the Vilnius Group, which early on announced its support of the United States regarding Iraq. You also have Bulgaria listed, which is firmly on our side. I won’t bother going through the rest of your ill-researched list. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526/35 "2003-03-20T01:12:17Z")
Further increasing the the grey area, both Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirites have [publicly called for Saddam to go into exile](http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraque/0,6119,2-10-1460_1335501,00.html). ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526/36 "2003-03-20T01:45:31Z")
Well, being a glass half-full sort of person… EU countries: Austria Belgium \*\*\*Denmark Finland France \*\*\*United Kingdom Sweden Germany Greece Ireland \*\*\*Spain \*\*\*Netherlands Luxembourg \*\*\*Italy Portugal (supported US as part of 8 European countries) \*\*\*_denotes support of US military action_ Future 10 EU countries: Cyprus \*\*\*Czech Republic \*\*\*Estonia \*\*\*Hungary \*\*\*Latvia \*\*\*Lithuania Malta \*\*\*Poland \*\*\*Slovakia Slovenia (supported US via letter as part of the Vilnius 10 group) Permit me a slight chuckle over that. And also of this: Former countries of the Soviet Union: \*\*\*Azerbaijan \*\*\*Georgia Kazakhstan Russia Turkmenistan \*\*\*Uzbekistan Ukraine (is on the unwilling list but maybe shouldn’t be.) Another interesting note: both Kuwait and Israel are “unwilling”. And Bahrain according to CNN tonight is also offering SH exile. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526/37 "2003-03-20T02:21:47Z")
Canada is apparently on the ‘support, but do not mention’ list. But I have to say, our Prime Minister, the execrable Mr. Chretien, is taking a lot of fire for his refusal to support the U.S. publically. Today’s question period in parliament was a shouting match, and most of it critical of Chretien. My favorite exchange (and I’m drawing it from memory - can’t find it on the web yet) went something like this: **Steven Harper:** (leader of the official opposition) "Mr. Prime Minister, why are we not supporting our good friends the Americans? How can you turn your back on Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair, our two best allies? **Chretien:** The U.N… supported disarmament. It did not support regime change. Canada will not support a military action to change the regime in Iraq. **Harper:** Based on what you just said, what we really need is regime change in Canada. The split in Canada is typical - the Conservatives and the Alliance party strongly support the United States. The Liberals and the NDP (socialists) do not. Since they’re in power, Canada doesn’t ‘support’ the U.S. But it’s not that simple. Support by the PUBLIC is much higher than our official stance would suggest. And Alberta, my province, issued an official statement of support for the U.S. attack on Iraq. Here’s what our Premier had to say today: > [@](#): > > “It is my personal opinion that we should stand by our friends,” Klein said at the legislature. > > “If they think there is a danger, a threat to the world security and world peace, then I think that I would stand by those who think that aggressive action is necessary,” he said. > > Klein said while it is awful to go to war, President George W. Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair obviously have some evidence that tells them that world peace is threatened unless something is done about Saddam Hussein. > > The premier also said that even if Canada were to support its traditional allies, it wouldn’t have much to offer. He also took a shot at Chretien’s political leanings. > > “I think it’s part of the prime minister’s demeanor,” Klein said. > > “In recent times, I think he’s much more closely allied with the French, Mr. Schroeder in Germany, and some of the other socialist leaders in Europe than he is to the United States.” And here’s what the Premier of Ontario had to say: > [@](#): > > KESWICK, Ont. (CP) - Prime Minister Jean Chretien should have been more supportive of Washington’s position on Iraq, Ontario Premier Ernie Eves suggested Tuesday. > > In a veiled criticism of Chretien’s decision that Canada will not take part in an American-led invasion of Iraq unless the UN approves, Eves stressed the close relationship between the two countries. “The United States of America is our greatest neighbour, our greatest trading ally, and has been our friend for a long, long time,” said Eves. > > “I regard ourselves as true allies and you have to be there in times of need for your friends and allies.” The split you are seeing in Canada is between our Anglophone and Francophone populations. Quebec is overwhelmingly opposed to war against Iraq, following France’s lead. On the other end of the spectrum, Alberta’s support for war is about as high as support for war among Americans. I believe there is majority support in Ontario. I don’t know about the other provinces, but the last poll I saw, a month ago, had 41% support for an attack on Iraq with a coalition but without the U.N. Given that Quebec’s support was somewhere around 25%, that would put the rest of Canada’s population in favor. And that was a month ago - I’ll bet it’s a lot higher today. Once again, our arrogant PM is damaging Canada by doing whatever the hell he pleases, and slapping our allies in the face. ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526/38 "2003-03-20T02:38:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\*Once again, our arrogant PM is damaging Canada by doing whatever the hell he pleases, and slapping our allies in the face. \*\* Maybe it’s time for a Canadian thread… I don’t want to hijack this one. Suffice it to say I’m proud of Chrétien’s non-participation in Junior’s war. Historical alliance and economic concerns do not necessitate following everything the United States does. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526/39 "2003-03-20T02:48:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JRDelirious \* > \*\*The [Japanese]“Maritime SD Force” actually have been rotating several destroyers for the past year to the Arabian Sea supporting the US fleet in Afghanistan operations. \*\* I’ll add that this marks the first time the Japaness deployed their AEGIS cruisers overseas. It’s seen in Japan as an indirect support of the Iraq war, because this suport frees up some American ships that can be sent to the Iraq campaign. IIRC the poll at that time showed a majority of the Japanese opposed the deployment for that reason. Anyway, I’ll point out that that the citizens of the " 30 Nation coalition" do not necessarily support the war. It’s their governments that do. And many of the “Secret Supporters” are countries whose governments want to support the war, but know that they can’t get the support from their people. ---
**Author:** ![regnad\_kcin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@regnad\_kcin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/regnad_kcin)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526/40 "2003-03-20T02:58:20Z")
Hey, this is good. El Linko: [http://www.areporter.com/sys-tmpl/thecoalitionofthewilling/](http://www.areporter.com/sys-tmpl/thecoalitionofthewilling/) What an unfortunate font choice!! Well, I got out the trusty calculator and present to you compiled statistics. I will use CotW as an abbreviation for Coalition of the Willing (excepting the US) US annual GDP: 10,082,000,000 combined GDP of CotW: 10,172,000,000 troops to be sent by US: 300,000 troops to be sent by combined CotW: 47,548 annual military budget of US: 396,000,000 annual military budget of combined CotW: 154,190,000 I notice as well that, excepting the US, the country with the highest annual military budget in the CotW is Japan, which is constitutionally forbidden to use its military for anything but defense – and by this I mean actual defense, not the kind of defense the US is employing right now. Soooooo… this aint Gulf War I, is it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/30-nation-coalition-for-war/162526.md?page=3)