# 300 - Best Fascist Propaganda Film Ever made **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2007, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717 "2007-04-19T01:02:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717/21 "2007-04-19T02:06:17Z")
Not till now, no. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717/22 "2007-04-19T02:07:17Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] The big idea of _Hero_ was that a nation needs a great leader who will be above the rules and who the people must follow without question. That’s certainly a concept that fascist (and other totalitarian) movements would welcome. [/QUOTE] Exactly. \*Hero \* was little more than an arthouse propaganda piece justifying China’s totalitarian government. Gorgeous, but chilling, and about as complex as your standard Worker’s Opera of Mao’s era. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717/23 "2007-04-19T02:14:03Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] And–sorry, missed this–Hitler no doubt liked chocolate milkshakes. But you don’t look at a chocolate milkshake and say to yourself, _“Hitler would really like that.”_ [/QUOTE] Of course. I am just trying to make it clear that while I do think Hitler would have liked _300_, I am not trying at all to imply that people that like _300_ are like Hitler. You watch the movie and you think we need more people like the Spartans around and a lot less people like the Persians. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717/24 "2007-04-19T02:19:07Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] The big idea of Hero was that a nation needs a great leader who will be above the rules and who the people must follow without question. That’s certainly a concept that fascist (and other totalitarian) movements would welcome. [/quote] [QUOTE=lissner] Exactly. Hero was little more than an arthouse propaganda piece justifying China’s totalitarian government. Gorgeous, but chilling, and about as complex as your standard Worker’s Opera of Mao’s era. [/quote] Good point. I saw it in D&D terms. In the end, the hero chose law over chaos, but it wasn’t an easy choice to make, nor obviously right. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717/25 "2007-04-19T02:26:02Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] I just spent five minutes trying to figure out how you found a fascist subtext to [this movie](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104412/). :smack: [/QUOTE] Me too! I was all, “Hey! I don’t remember the fascist content in that movie … of course, all I do remember is basically ‘Geena Davis … mmmmmmmmmmm.’” ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717/26 "2007-04-19T02:27:53Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] I just spent five minutes trying to figure out how you found a fascist subtext to [this movie](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104412/). :smack: [/QUOTE] Haw! A far superior film; an overlooked gem. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717/27 "2007-04-19T02:31:29Z")
In 300, it is the Spartans very practice of eugenics that causes their downfall. A deformed child, that would have been killed by Spartan law is spirited away by his parents. Then when he returns and offers to fight along side the Spartans he is refused. Refused for very good reasons, he isn’t trained in the Spartan fighting techniques and he really can’t do it. So, rejected by the Spartans, he goes to the Persians, shows them the secret path that allows them to get behind the 300. I wouldn’t call that as saying eugenics is a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717/28 "2007-04-19T02:32:04Z")
By the way, was it your intention to post this in the Pit? Or did you mean it to go in CS? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717/29 "2007-04-19T02:33:21Z")
[QUOTE=Zebra] In 300, it is the Spartans very practice of eugenics that causes their downfall. A deformed child, that would have been killed by Spartan law is spirited away by his parents. Then when he returns and offers to fight along side the Spartans he is refused. Refused for very good reasons, he isn’t trained in the Spartan fighting techniques and he really can’t do it. So, rejected by the Spartans, he goes to the Persians, shows them the secret path that allows them to get behind the 300. I wouldn’t call that as saying eugenics is a good idea. [/QUOTE] Well, except that by rejecting him, they were in fact \*practicing \* eugenics. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717/30 "2007-04-19T02:34:04Z")
[QUOTE=chorpler] Me too! I was all, “Hey! I don’t remember the fascist content in that movie … of course, all I do remember is basically ‘Geena Davis … mmmmmmmmmmm.’” [/quote] Damn my selective memory. All I remember is Dustin Hoffman saying, “Everybody thinks truth is like toilet paper, and they got a supply in the closet.” And when his son asks him, “What about all that you told me about always looking out for numero uno?” he admits, “I blew it.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717/31 "2007-04-19T02:36:55Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] By the way, was it your intention to post this in the Pit? Or did you mean it to go in CS? [/quote] Well, the OP is a rant and I’m still expecting to have to defend myself against charges of kookery. possibly crack smoking. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717/32 "2007-04-19T02:37:37Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] Well, except that by rejecting him, they were in fact \*practicing \* eugenics. [/QUOTE] Which leads to thier deaths. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717/33 "2007-04-19T02:40:39Z")
I wouldn’t say that _Hero_ is necessarily on the Qin’s side, though - it’s much more ambiguous than that. Sure, he “wins” in the end, but he’s not portrayed as terribly heroic. And Nameless’s choice was made with great difficulty, and the film ends without a definite endorsement of his final action. ---
**Author:** ![CaerieD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@CaerieD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaerieD)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717/34 "2007-04-19T02:53:48Z")
[QUOTE=Zebra] Which leads to thier deaths. [/QUOTE] Ah, but if they’d simply killed him–practicing eugenics _properly_–they might have triumphed! Their downfall was in their mercy. Yeah, I can kind of see some fascist elements in the flick, though I’m not about to get too excited about it. I was also able to find Christian elements in _Pleasantville_. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717/35 "2007-04-19T02:53:54Z")
[QUOTE=Zebra] Which leads to thier deaths. [/QUOTE] Right. Eugenics is properly seen as a bankrupt idea, but its practitioners don’t tend to see it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717/36 "2007-04-19T03:31:38Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny Angel] Diplomacy is for fagots. [/QUOTE] How do you negotiate with someone who wants to take your country away from you and figures (whether rightly or wrongly) that they could do it easily by force? What would you bargain with? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717/37 "2007-04-19T03:51:20Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny Angel] the problem with _Triumph of the Will_ and _Starship Troopers_ was that they weren’t nearly as good as this film [/QUOTE] _Starship Troopers_ is approximately thirty-seven times better than _300._ I tried to do the calculation on the Riefenstahl piece but my wristwatch calculator doesn’t support scientific notation. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717/38 "2007-04-19T03:51:26Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny Angel] Never mind that the Spartans are only white by revisionism. [/QUOTE] :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717/39 "2007-04-19T04:01:14Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] _Starship Troopers_ is approximately thirty-seven times better than _300._ I tried to do the calculation on the Riefenstahl piece but my wristwatch calculator doesn’t support scientific notation. [/QUOTE] Bwah! I like your math. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717/40 "2007-04-19T04:03:13Z")
[QUOTE=Uzi] How do you negotiate with someone who wants to take your country away from you and figures (whether rightly or wrongly) that they could do it easily by force? What would you bargain with? [/quote] When they were at the bargaining stage, the messenger only demanded a token amount of land. I wouldn’t seriously believe it would stop there, but I would have sent the messenger home with a firm ‘no’ instead of killing him and his entourage. Ah, but that would have robbed them of a chance to commit a manly act of murder while shouting out their catch phrase. Countries rattle their sabers at us all the time. Would you have us massacre their diplomats just so they don’t get to declare war first? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/300-best-fascist-propaganda-film-ever-made/400717.md?page=3)