# 327,151,193 Muslims **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 26, 2004, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736 "2004-11-26T11:03:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/1 "2004-11-26T11:03:34Z")
This is the number of Muslims living under the rule of _democratically elected women_ in the past five years. I hope that surprises some of you. I use these figures to illustrate that when people on these boards use the terms “the Muslim world” or “the entire Islamic community”, they don’t actually seem to know what, or where, the fuck they’re talking about. That despite certain bad attitudes towards women in _parts_ of “the Muslim world”, 34,123,622 _more people than the entire population of the United States_, have recently seen fit to vote for a female leader. And this isn’t the first time - in the 1980s, Benazir Bhutto of Pakistan was, together with Eugenia Charles of Dominica, and Margaret Thatcher of the UK, one of the first democratically elected female leaders in history. Yet again we get an assertion, in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5538782), in addition to incorrect and some inaccurate and rather racist statements (against Arabs), to the tune of: > [@](#): > > I’m afraid one bad apple CAN spoil the whole bunch, whether intentionally or not. It is just like the one bad kid that has to ruin everything for the class. The acts of Bin Laden, and such, will only serve to drag down the Islamic community as a whole. Now don’t get me wrong. I am **not** denying that there are dreadful, potentially threatening, and growing problems in parts of “the Muslim world”. Some of these problems - such as FGM - are cultural, and are often shared by non-Muslims in the same region. Some of them are indeed religious, such as Islamist terrorism. Some of them are down to a _particular sect_ of Islam, such as the horrific treatment of women in Saudi Arabia. However, I do wish people would stop pinning _everything bad that ever happens_ (such as the inter-ethnic conflict in Darfur) amongst these 1.2 billion people around the globe, on their religion. I have been accused of being “trendy” for defending Muslims in general (as opposed to murderous terrorist fanatics), or “PC” when I have attempted to counter ingorant, anti-Islamic prejudice, but I have no axe to grind. I have no great love for any religion whatsoever, particularly not fundamentalist or fanatical versions thereof. I am, however, thoroughly pissed off with the demonization of “the Muslim world” as a homogenous entity, and with this hopefully eye-opening fact, trying in one little way to redress the balance of the Islamophobia that is a shame to these boards. If you’re going to condemn an entire group of people, then specify which entire group you’re condemning. If you mean “Arabs” then say “Arabs”, and let your statements stand and fall on their merits or demerits. But if you think that Bin Laden’s vile schemes deserve an apology from, or somehow tarnish, someone living quietly and peacefully in Sumatra, or Malaysia, or Brunei, then you’re fucking bonkers. [Khaleda Zia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaleda_Zia), Prime Minister, [Bangladesh](http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/bg.html), 1991 - 1996, 2001-present day. Population 141,340,476 of which 83% Muslim: 117,312,595. [Megawati Sukarnoputri](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megawati), President, [Indonesia](http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/id.html), 2001 until 2004. Population 238,452,952 of which 88% Muslim: 209,838,598. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/2 "2004-11-26T11:10:57Z")
The first person to vote in Iraq’s elections was, I believe, a woman. And incidentally, your advice would be excellent in re any other group as well, like Fundamentalist Christians. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/3 "2004-11-26T11:18:17Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > And incidentally, your advice would be excellent in re any other group as well, like Fundamentalist Christians. It’s not quite parallel. My beef would be the same if anyone who did anything bad in the west constantly generated statements like “the entire Christian community” being tarnished and having to apologise. However, you’re right: it’s only those fundamentalist Christians who would seek to convert me, or try to interfere with the laws I live under, that I would or should condemn. Those that leave me be, I should leave them be. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/4 "2004-11-26T11:34:14Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > And this isn’t the first time - in the 1980s, Benazir Bhutto of Pakistan was, together with Eugenia Charles of Dominica, and Margaret Thatcher of the UK, one of the first democratically elected female leaders in history. {aside} Benazir Bhutto 1988 Eugenia Charles 1980 Margaret Thatcher 1979 Isabel Peron was elected VP of Argentina in 1973, and claimed the Presidency in 1974 upon the death of Juan Peron. {/aside} ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/5 "2004-11-26T11:36:50Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > Isabel Peron was elected VP of Argentina in 1973, and claimed the Presidency in 1974 upon the death of Juan Peron. Thanks. I just fired my fact-checker. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/6 "2004-11-26T11:47:48Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > The first person to vote in Iraq’s elections was, I believe, a woman. I think you mean [Afghanistan](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/10/08/afghanistan.elections/). ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/7 "2004-11-26T12:00:11Z")
> [@Desmostylus](#): > > {aside} > Benazir Bhutto 1988 > Eugenia Charles 1980 > Margaret Thatcher 1979 > > Isabel Peron was elected VP of Argentina in 1973, and claimed the Presidency in 1974 upon the death of Juan Peron. > {/aside} Finnbogadotti was also elected president in 1980 (Iceland) – the first female elected president I think. And Maria Pintasilgo (Portugal) was also elected PM in 1979. Besides that there’re Golda Meir and Indira Ghandi in the sixties. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/8 "2004-11-26T12:04:42Z")
Oh, and while everyone’s nitpicking, [Sirimavo Bandaranaike](http://womenshistory.about.com/od/bandaranaike/), “three times Prime Minister of Sri Lanka, was the first woman in the world to hold the office of prime minister. Her daughter later became President then Prime Minister of Sri Lanka.” (My dad met the Icelandic PM and said she was gorgeous.) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/9 "2004-11-26T12:17:53Z")
[Here’s](http://www.terra.es/personal2/monolith/00women.htm) a good site listing all (AFAIK) women prime ministers, presidents, etc since WWII. If you’re interested in that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/10 "2004-11-26T12:18:02Z")
See what controversy you’ve created, **jjimm**. Shame on you. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/11 "2004-11-26T12:21:56Z")
…none of which controversy negates my statement that Bhutto was “_one of_ the first democratically elected female leaders in history”. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/12 "2004-11-26T12:26:23Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > [Here’s](http://www.terra.es/personal2/monolith/00women.htm) a good site listing all (AFAIK) women prime ministers, presidents, etc since WWII. You bloody fool! That link is dead, you goddamn fishy cunt! …heh heh. just joking. But the like is still dead… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/13 "2004-11-26T12:26:50Z")
Alright, you bastard… > [@jjimm](#): > > This is the number of Muslims living under the rule of _democratically elected women_ in the past five years. > > […] > > That despite certain bad attitudes towards women in _parts_ of “the Muslim world”, 34,123,622 _more people than the entire population of the United States_, have recently seen fit to vote for a female leader. Clearly there is a difference between the number of Muslims \*living under \* women rulers and the number of Muslims who \*voted for \* women rulers. And having caught you in this blatant contradiction I declare your entire point, as well as anything you may assert in the future, null and void. QED I win, neener neener neener. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/14 "2004-11-26T12:27:23Z")
May as well finish this off. First elected President: Peron 1974. First elected PM: Bandaranaike 1960. Sorry for the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/15 "2004-11-26T12:29:55Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Alright, you bastard… > Clearly there is a difference between the number of Muslims \*living under \* women rulers and the number of Muslims who \*voted for \* women rulers. Yes, you’re right. Clearly that paragraph of my OP, written hurriedly, contains a few errors that indeed will possibly used to demolish its overall intent. I edit to: ‘That despite certain bad attitudes towards women in parts of “the Muslim world”, 34,123,622 more people than the entire population of the United States, are living under a female leader voted for by the majority of voters in those countries.’ Punchy, eh! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/16 "2004-11-26T12:34:33Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Clearly there is a difference between the number of Muslims \*living under \* women rulers and the number of Muslims who \*voted for \* women rulers. Same as the difference between Americans living under Bush and …you get the idea. > [@Rune](#): > > You bloody fool! That link is dead, you goddamn fishy cunt! > > …heh heh. just joking. But the like is still dead… Works fine for me ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/17 "2004-11-26T12:35:17Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I edit to: ‘That despite certain bad attitudes towards women in parts of “the Muslim world”, 34,123,622 more people than the entire population of the United States, are living under a female leader voted for by the majority of voters in those countries.’ Punchy, eh! 😉 You might have some difficulty fitting it onto a bumper sticker, true. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/18 "2004-11-26T12:37:30Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > You might have some difficulty fitting it onto a bumper sticker, true. My Smart Car might not take it, but my Hummer sure as hell will! ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/19 "2004-11-26T13:04:59Z")
Now they’re forcing women to head their governments for them!? The horrors of the Muslim World never cease to shock me! just in case you needed it . . . 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/20 "2004-11-26T13:05:23Z")
Bet I wasn’t the only one who thought the thread title referred to the number of Muslims expected to be living in Europe before the end of the century. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736.md?page=2)