# 327,151,193 Muslims **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 26, 2004, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736 "2004-11-26T11:03:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/41 "2004-11-26T15:00:57Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > Luckily I don’t need any brush to tarnish you **R\_L** you’ve done a fine job of that yourself. > > Kudos. Indeed I have 🙂 Now leave me alone 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/42 "2004-11-26T15:02:50Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I didn’t tarnish all Muslims with the same brush 😉 Eventually you didn’t, but you did make some choice statements about “the Muslim world”, [such as](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5431121#post5431121): > [@](#): > > …don’t start complaining when we bomb Muslim towns and cities, or cry foul when we invade countries, when we have had planes slammed into trade centres peoples heads cut off, people in the Islamic world openely express their loyalty to these kinds of people (I know they are not of a majority, but they are of sizable amount). [and](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5443034#post5443034) > [@](#): > > And people whine on about much I shouldn’t be annoyed that a Muslim pop. could become a majority in Europe. :rolleyes: > > Nice example of the kinda shit we’re going to face if we don’t grow some balls over the situation, OP. I think we’ve our full complement of fucktards, thanks, without adding to it. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/43 "2004-11-26T15:03:01Z")
Grand so. I will. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/44 "2004-11-26T15:46:56Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > This is the number of Muslims living under the rule of _democratically elected women_ in the past five years. > > I hope that surprises some of you. > > I use these figures to illustrate that when people on these boards use the terms “the Muslim world” or “the entire Islamic community”, they don’t actually seem to know what, or where, the fuck they’re talking about… etc etc > > \ La-la-la-la-la-laa-laa-laaa-LAA-LAAA-LAAAA I can’t HEAR you… LA-LA-LAAAA… Arabs you say? Tent-riding camel-dwellers the lotta dem … er, or something like that. Bring your leftie liberal FACTS here again, BUB, and you’ll be reading them to the 72 virgins with Allah! USA! USA! USA! [/Republican] ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/45 "2004-11-26T15:51:47Z")
> [@](#): > > **jjimm** > > Eventually you didn’t, but you did make some choice statements about “the Muslim world”, Erm, nice way to put a spin on my post, but the rest of it says > [@](#): > > I said what I said because some Muslims think of themselves as the eternal victim. It isn’t true, we all are. [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5431121#post5431121) > [@](#): > > And people whine on about much I shouldn’t be annoyed that a Muslim pop. could become a majority in Europe. [and heres my turnaround](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...70&postcount=75) > [@](#): > > I think we’ve our full complement of fucktards, thanks, without adding to it. You and every other self styled crusader against ignorance took up the job of trying to convince me my opinions wrong or I’m wrong in outlook all together, if you don’t like it, then don’t bother 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/46 "2004-11-26T16:50:23Z")
Excellent point. I’ve tried to explain the difference between “Muslim” and “Arab” on countless occasions. Most Muslims are outside of the “Arab world”; most don’t speak Arabic as a first language; most Muslim women don’t wear head coverings (though I hardly see why the hijab has become such a symbol of maltreatment of Muslim women.) ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/47 "2004-11-26T17:05:08Z")
Is Iran still excluded from the Middle East, Liam? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/48 "2004-11-26T17:12:25Z")
Several of the earliest women presidents/prime ministers were actually part of political families. These were in countries where there’s a tradition of the members of a family being the leader of one of the main parties (despite the country supposedly being democratically ruled). These women were wives or daughters of former presidents/prime ministers. Of course, you could say the same thing about the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/49 "2004-11-26T19:19:20Z")
> [@Wendell Wagner](#): > > Of course, you could say the same thing about the U.S. Or you _could_, if the United States had ever had a female president. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/50 "2004-11-26T19:42:53Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > though I hardly see why the hijab has become such a symbol of maltreatment of Muslim women. I don’t think it’s the [hijab](http://abidis.org/gifs/hijab-face.jpg) so much as the [burqa](http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1640000/images/_1644393_burqua.jpg), which is restrictive and hot inside, and was also **not optional** for a while there. I think it’s the “not optional” part that gets people’s hackles up, really. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/51 "2004-11-26T19:45:48Z")
To ignore the poetry, lyrics, and fucktards, and return to the pedantic nitpicking tone earlier established; had Sonia Gandhi not withdrawn, 120,000,000 Muslims could be added to the OP’s count. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/52 "2004-11-26T20:17:05Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > Is Iran still excluded from the Middle East, Liam? its, Ryan 🙂 but they are not included in the Arab world no 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2004, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/53 "2004-11-27T00:51:30Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > I don’t think it’s the [hijab](http://abidis.org/gifs/hijab-face.jpg) so much as the [burqa](http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1640000/images/_1644393_burqua.jpg), which is restrictive and hot inside, and was also **not optional** for a while there. I think it’s the “not optional” part that gets people’s hackles up, really. Not optional ‘there’? I think you mean not optional in Afghanistan. Which isn’t an Arab country, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2004, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/54 "2004-11-27T09:32:57Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > I don’t think it’s the [hijab](http://abidis.org/gifs/hijab-face.jpg) so much as the [burqa](http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1640000/images/_1644393_burqua.jpg), which is restrictive and hot inside, and was also **not optional** for a while there. I think it’s the “not optional” part that gets people’s hackles up, really. You’re talking specifically about Afghanistan, yes? I agree. The restrictive rules on women’s dress were an appalling abuse of human rights. They’re bad in Iran (though there is a subtle liberalisation happening, and long may it continue), and many Arab countries, in particular Saudi Arabia, have similar repressive dress restrictions. However, back to the spirit of the OP, I am talking about “the Muslim world”, where most women can either wear a hijab out of choice, or can choose not to wear it. Even some Arab countries don’t have this restriction - in my visit to the UAE, I saw lots of local women wearing western clothing, makeup, and no head covering (and gorgeous many of them were, too!). ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2004, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/55 "2004-11-27T09:53:12Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > I don’t think it’s the [hijab](http://abidis.org/gifs/hijab-face.jpg) so much as the [burqa](http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1640000/images/_1644393_burqua.jpg), which is restrictive and hot inside, and was also **not optional** for a while there. I think it’s the “not optional” part that gets people’s hackles up, really. That’s sorta my point, but maybe it’s not something y’all have seen. I’ve heard far to many people disclaim the sexism of the hijab, which in my opinion is not terribly valid. In places where it’s worn, it’s optional, and it’s not highly restrictive or uncomfortable. The burqa, as worn under Taliban rule in (Muslim but not Arab) Afghanistan, is a different kettle of fish entirely. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2004, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/56 "2004-11-27T10:08:14Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > (and gorgeous many of them were, too!). When 900 years old you reach, look as good you will not, hmm? I couldn’t resist. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2004, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/57 "2004-11-27T13:12:31Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > …I am **not** denying that there are dreadful, potentially threatening, and growing problems in parts of “the Muslim world”… So why is it that every time those problems are brought up, the lefties come scurrying out from under the rocks to put up every type of smoke screen imaginable? It’s the West’s fault. It’s not really a problem. You’re racist. Christians are no better. Nothing out of you guys on the actual problems, just attempts at misdirection and obfuscation. > [@jjimm](#): > > …trying in one little way to redress the balance of the Islamophobia that is a shame to these boards… ‘Islamophobia’? What is it with lefties and making up words? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2004, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/58 "2004-11-27T13:25:13Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > So why is it that every time those problems are brought up, the lefties come scurrying out from under the rocks to put up every type of smoke screen imaginable? It’s the West’s fault. It’s not really a problem. You’re racist. Christians are no better. Nothing out of you guys on the actual problems, just attempts at misdirection and obfuscation. Perhaps because you wifully misinterpret and misrepresent what’s actually being said? > [@](#): > > ‘Islamophobia’? What is it with lefties and making up words? :shrug: [It’s a genuine word](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=islamophobia) that addresses a specific phenomenon that is the subject of the OP. Seems fair enough to use it. By the way, I’m not a “lefty”, I just appear so to you because of your extreme views. Anyway, nice bit of sidestepping. How about addressing the OP rather than merely attacking my perceived “leftiness”. Do you agree that people condemning “the Muslim world” are fallacious? If not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2004, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/59 "2004-11-27T13:26:09Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > I don’t think it’s the [hijab](http://abidis.org/gifs/hijab-face.jpg) so much as the [burqa](http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1640000/images/_1644393_burqua.jpg), which is restrictive and hot inside, and was also **not optional** for a while there. I think it’s the “not optional” part that gets people’s hackles up, really. Personally, I think _hijab_ would be an excellent term for referring to what happens when someone takes a thread off topic to rant about treatment of women by some Muslim countries! 😉 As for the point of the OP, it’s a fascinating figure. And it’s often difficult to remember that the majority of Muslims are not Arabs. (And that many Arabs are not Muslims.) ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2004, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736/60 "2004-11-27T13:57:56Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Do you agree that people condemning “the Muslim world” are fallacious? If not, why not? The muslim world is chock full of problems, from Morocco to Malaysia (And increasingly, Europe). What percentage must be problem-ridden before you folks recognize that A) Problems exist, B) They must be dealt with post-haste, and C) Useless politically-correct handwringing only exacerbates the situation, since it quells any real discussion of the problems. You may prefer that people hone to keen edge their condemnation (Those fucking Nizari Isma’ilis!). but that just isn’t human nature. Besides, you aren’t seriously holding up Bangladesh and Indonesia as shining examples of how things should be, are you? As if though having had a female leader means those countries don’t have some pretty serious problems? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/327-151-193-muslims/276736.md?page=4)