# 36 Reasons Why You Should Thank a Union... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 25, 2014, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683 "2014-01-25T11:57:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683/61 "2014-01-27T04:34:35Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Maybe you would be willing to do so. If so, you can always do that for your employer and never turn them in for violating the labor laws. But my guess is that in actual life you aren’t willing to do those things and don’t do those things. Did I guess wrong? My guess is that you would like to do those things to others. The law prohibits that. For good reason. But if I didn’t guess wrong, then you are willing to do those things for cheap and not turn people in and get screwed on the pay, doesn’t that make you a wage slave and a chump? Yes I’m sure I could convince GE, Boeing, or any number of successful companies to ignore labor laws. Think things through please I have little time for silliness. It would make me a wage slave if I brokered a deal in which I secured a higher wage for suboptimal working conditions? Marxist neologisms aside, do you actually have a point? I find great irony in the idea that if I would turn down Social Security benefits in order to keep the money and invest it at my own discretion I am a wage slave. > [@](#): > > Slavery is illegal. Child labor is illegal, and worse than slavery in many ways. Child labor was an unfortunate fact of life for centuries upon centuries of human life. It has largely disappeared in developed nations because of capital accumulation and an enhanced division of labor characteristic of capitalist economies. > [@](#): > > 18 hour days are illegal and terrible. And after the Civil War, optional. Welcome to America. > [@](#): > > The law prohibits them, and unions made them illegal after convincing legislatures to pass laws and executives to sign them. Unions were seeking protection by eliminating competition from those willing to work longer days than them. Every item on the list was advocated by unions to protect their own members at the expense of non members. > [@](#): > > Over the objections of people who would like to use human beings as slaves and worse and dispose of them. You’re being too loose with the slavery term. Maybe it’s because of a subconscious desire to not be taken seriously. > [@](#): > > They call themselves conservatives. They are not, they are exploiters of children, poor and the desperate. I get it, ok? You want to be father to every child. The facts of life during the time of widespread child labor were.such that the labor of the parents alone were not enough to provide for the family. Pulling the child out of a paying position at this point would mean starvation for the family. Of course the Benevolent Father has only the most virtuous of intentions. > [@](#): > > History tried tyrannical bosses, and we had terrible conditions. What arose in opposition were various anarchist movements, communism and organized labor. Organized labor made the best solution to the problems of the industrial revolution No actually capital accumulation solved the problems. Investment in capital made workers more productive, which allowed for more downtime, shorter work days, safer operations, and yes, higher real wages so that the children could stay home and live the life previously enjoyed in the pre-capitalist days only by the aristocracy. > [@](#): > > The only thing you can point out in opposition is that you would like to have the choice to be abused as a hypothetical. Yeah, right. What you really mean is that you’d like to take advantage of others. No I’m not choosing to be abused in my hypotheticals. I’m making tradeoffs I feel any thinking person should have a choice to make. You naively assume these 36 things come with no cons. A short reading of real deal economics would help you mightily. Start here: [http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html](http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html) > [@](#): > > I’m not impressed with your independent spirit, I’m disgusted at your insistence on making the abuse of others legal. You’ve bought the establishment narrative hook, line, and sinker, I wish you well in your reading of Bastiat. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683/62 "2014-01-27T05:20:28Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Accusing people of lying doesn’t help win them over. > > Also, declaring “I’m taking my ball and going home” doesn’t convince people that they’re wrong. > > Beyond that, people have already punched holes in your claim about unions being responsible for the “36 improvements”. > > To give one obvious example, how exactly were unions responsible for “public education”? > > There’ve been public schools in the US for children since at least the early 19th Century and starting in 1852(Massachusetts) states started making schooling compulsory. The Knights of Labor weren’t formed until after the Civil War and fairly small until the 1880s. > > What unions were responsible for the State of Massachusetts in 1852 making public schooling compulsory? > > Beyond that, since I responded to your questions, would you mind responding to mine in response to your defense of union members engaging in harassment and threatening behavior. > > Also, perhaps you would have the courtesy to respond to Novelty Bobble’s rather legitimate question if you find me unworthy of a response. > > Thank you in advance for your response. You’re welcome. You can do it all on your own and you should. Stop relying on union supporters for your hard work and entertainment. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683/63 "2014-01-27T05:42:59Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Yes I’m sure I could convince GE, Boeing, or any number of successful companies to ignore labor laws. Think things through please I have little time for silliness. > > It would make me a wage slave if I brokered a deal in which I secured a higher wage for suboptimal working conditions? Marxist neologisms aside, do you actually have a point? > > I find great irony in the idea that if I would turn down Social Security benefits in order to keep the money and invest it at my own discretion I am a wage slave. > > Child labor was an unfortunate fact of life for centuries upon centuries of human life. It has largely disappeared in developed nations because of capital accumulation and an enhanced division of labor characteristic of capitalist economies. > > And after the Civil War, optional. Welcome to America. > > Unions were seeking protection by eliminating competition from those willing to work longer days than them. Every item on the list was advocated by unions to protect their own members at the expense of non members. > > You’re being too loose with the slavery term. Maybe it’s because of a subconscious desire to not be taken seriously. > > I get it, ok? You want to be father to every child. The facts of life during the time of widespread child labor were.such that the labor of the parents alone were not enough to provide for the family. Pulling the child out of a paying position at this point would mean starvation for the family. Of course the Benevolent Father has only the most virtuous of intentions. > > No actually capital accumulation solved the problems. Investment in capital made workers more productive, which allowed for more downtime, shorter work days, safer operations, and yes, higher real wages so that the children could stay home and live the life previously enjoyed in the pre-capitalist days only by the aristocracy. > > No I’m not choosing to be abused in my hypotheticals. I’m making tradeoffs I feel any thinking person should have a choice to make. You naively assume these 36 things come with no cons. A short reading of real deal economics would help you mightily. Start here: [http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html](http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html) > > You’ve bought the establishment narrative hook, line, and sinker, I wish you well in your reading of Bastiat. Nothing comes without consequences. I prefer to have the consequences of union benefits in our society. You want me to read a long “Bastiat” article? I’ll pass. If you can’t make a concise argument, then it is a burden you will have to bear. You don’t get to hand out reading assignments. The facts are the facts, and all 36 off those achievements are reality, and I didn’t call you liars (not that you would appreciate it) because the forum rules don’t allow it. But do I think that? I suppose it is possible that you don’t have enough self-insight to realize you live in a fantasy world of alternate history. But I’m disinclined to give your crowd the benefit of being involuntary fantasists. Your minds are as far up your backsides as Sarah Palin’s is. And you should be called on it for what it is in public forums. But Sarah Palin is much smarter than you are, she is a paid spouter of fiction, you haven’t managed to make it pay in some ruggedly individualistic fashion. The difference between union busting and getting along with unions is the difference between Frick and Carnagie. I’ll take Carnagie. The fact of the matter is that you don’t work 18 hour days 7 days a week, you aren’t allowed to hire children at slave wages, there is social security, etc. And you have no choice about it. I particularly like that you have no choice about it. One, it means that you are not allowed to coast on the benefits earned by others and not earned by you, and secondly, for you libertarians, it means that you are _coerced_ into obeying the law “at gunpoint” (really no one has put a gun to your heads, but you are such drama queens) into bearing the same communal burdens as everyone else. You can’t have your lawless stab everyone in the back country here because the law prohibits it. Please do go Galt. We don’t want or need people who take all the benefits badmouthing how they got those benefits and then expect us to treat you politely. You are scabs and hypocrites. When you refuse the social security, the unemployment benefits, the 8 hour workday, the weekends, the safety protections and the child labor laws and do so for the rest of your life, then come back and brag about how pure you are. But until you refuse those benefits personally, you are hypocrites and nothing more. You libertarians are not lonely rugged individualist heroes, you are whiny, hypocritical smug folks who don’t have the slightest understanding that the very roads you drive down every day, and virtually every other thing in our modern lives is utterly contrary to your libertarian principles. You have substituted a simple system of principles of greed in place of human compassion without the courage of your convictions. You don’t work 18 hour days for your employers, you don’t work for less than the minimum wage, you don’t work every weekend, you are entitled to social security (and will take it) and are hypocrites for calling them (and unions, the people who organized to get them) drains on society. Until such a time as you personally do all these things, you are hypocrites of the worst kind. You are what they call “defectors” in academic studies of game theories. In the prisoner dilemma, your position is the one that always, but always sells out your counterparts because it benefits you personally. That everyone else contributed communally makes no impression on you, you think those people are chumps. In labor organizing there is a word for your kind: scab. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683/64 "2014-01-27T05:48:51Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > You’re welcome. You can do it all on your own and you should. Stop relying on union supporters for your hard work and entertainment. Huh? How can I possibly look up something that is clearly impossible. You rather foolishly insisted that unions were responsible for public education in America and even more foolishly insisted that anyone who doubted this was either stupid, a liar, or both. I asked you how unions could possibly have been responsible for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts of 1852 requiring compulsory education of children when the major unions of the 19th Century hadn’t even come into existence and wouldn’t for almost twenty years later. It is obvious to every right thinking person that you made a foolish, obviously false claim that you couldn’t back up.\* If I’m wrong it should be easy to do so. Please provide a cite to show that unions were responsible for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts in 1852 requiring compulsory education or admit you were wrong. If you can’t it’ll be obvious you’re simply unwilling to admit you were wrong. \*. This isn’t to indicate you were lying. You were clearly wrong and simply unwilling to admit you’d made a mistake. I don’t see why since we all make mistakes. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683/65 "2014-01-27T05:59:03Z")
Anyway, once again you didn’t answer the fair questions Novelty Bobble and I asked after you indicated you defended thuggish and threatening behavior and believed that 19th Century Chinese immigrants and Jim Crow era African-American migrants to Chicago were the equivalent of Nazis. Could you please answer them? > [@](#): > > **Ibn Warraq** > Anyway, if I understand you correctly, what you’re saying is that during the 19th Century Chinese immigrants and African-American migrants from the South who came northward and took jobs that had been abandoned by European immigrants were comparable to the Nazis? > > So then, when European immigrants engaged in violence against said Chinese and African-Americans(or “Chinks” and “niggers”) to use the terms they did then, is your position that they were being like the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto who fought back against the Nazis? > [@](#): > > **Ibn Warraq** > What other sorts of behavior do you support? Throwing rocks, bottles, and or food at them? Since you seem to support threats, do you also support taking the threats a bit further and physically attacking the people involved? > [@](#): > > **Second Stone** > Scabs should have insults screamed at them, regardless of their motives. Paid assassins the same thing. Being a scab is far, far more shameful than insulting a scab for being a scab. It’s almost as shameful as the Jews that helped the SS at the death camps in exchange for slightly better treatment, and certainly comparable. (And yes, I went all Godwin, but it is an apt analogy.) > > I also approve of taking pictures of asshole scabs and their drivers driving away from the scene. And coming to the scab’s place of business and trying to get the scab fired for it. Payback is a bitch. The union jobs are not scab jobs and are not scab business. You come into their house and try to screw with their livelihood, I don’t see why they shouldn’t do the same to you. > > There really is nothing lower than a scab short of a criminal. Shame, ridicule, insults and loss of status in the community are just responses to scabbing. > [@](#): > > **Novelty Bobble** > Well, there we go QED. You heard it here people. The above is apparently an example of morally upright behaviour. > > You do realise that reason for unions losing their legitimacy in the eyes of many is encapsulated in the poisonous screed above. > > Let me test your dedication to acceptable moral standards. Someone crossing a picket line is beaten up…what is your reaction? Once again, thank you in advance for your answer. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683/66 "2014-01-27T06:25:32Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Anyway, once again you didn’t answer the fair questions Novelty Bobble and I asked after you indicated you defended thuggish and threatening behavior and believed that 19th Century Chinese immigrants and Jim Crow era African-American migrants to Chicago were the equivalent of Nazis. > > Could you please answer them? No. Don’t like it, tough. If you think the criminal acts of individuals are attributable to everyone, then why aren’t the criminal acts of Halliburton and BP in the Gulf Oil spill attributable to all corporations for all time. You choose to focus on abhorrent criminal acts and call the whole movement criminal. I don’t think that I will dignify such poor levels of thought with a response. Now, I’ve asked you many times to start working 18 hours a day 7 days a week and start sending your children to work in factories, never apply for social security or medicare benefits, etc. Why haven’t you done that yet? Thank you for your response. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683/67 "2014-01-27T06:35:27Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Now, I’ve asked you many times to start working 18 hours a day 7 days a week and start sending your children to work in factories, never apply for social security or medicare benefits, etc. Why haven’t you done that yet? Thank you for your response. Why? I still haven’t seen a decent reason why I need to support or be in a union just because unions in the past got some benefits for me. I have’t heard a decent reason why I need to not use those benefits. As I asked before, what is it that they’re currently doing that is worth my support, or 2% of my salary? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683/68 "2014-01-27T06:46:22Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > No. Don’t like it, tough. If you think the criminal acts of individuals are attributable to everyone, then why aren’t the criminal acts of Halliburton and BP in the Gulf Oil spill attributable to all corporations for all time. You choose to focus on abhorrent criminal acts and call the whole movement criminal. I don’t think that I will dignify such poor levels of thought with a response. Of course I never claimed and don’t claim the entire movement was criminal. You’re the one who claims to be a lawyer while defending stalking, harassment and other types of threatening behavior. You’re also the one who foolishly compared workers who ran afowl of unions to Kapos. We both merely asked what would be your reaction to physical violence being taken against people who crossed a union picket line. The fact that your response has been insults and to effectively declare “I’m going to pick my ball up and go home” is quite telling. > [@](#): > > Now, I’ve asked you many times to start working 18 hours a day 7 days a week and start sending your children to work in factories, never apply for social security or medicare benefits, etc. Why haven’t you done that yet? Thank you for your response. Er… Your logic is beyond stupid. Where have I ever suggested that unions hadn’t done some worthwhile things. I also never suggested that unions weren’t responsible for that. I merely have asked you provide for your foolish assertion that unions were responsible for public education in America. I asked you to explain how unions could be responsible for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts making education compulsory in 1852 when the Knights of Labor weren’t even around until the late 1860s. Rather than admit you were wrong you merely started making a number of rude comments and again basically declared “I’m going to take my ball sand go home.” ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683/69 "2014-01-27T10:44:39Z")
I can’t help but think that the reduced role of labor unions is the primary driver of [this trend.](http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/what-happened-to-the-wage-and-productivity-link/) Unions can track profitability and demand their members get a cut in ways that a single worker cannot. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683/70 "2014-01-27T11:26:54Z")
I’m very much in favour of unions. Someone has to protect the workers from the overweening psychopathy of business. Are there bad unions? Sure. But there are also good unions. And bad unions can be fixed by the members. Or the members can vote with their feet. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683/71 "2014-01-27T11:59:08Z")
If unions suddenly went away, would we have to work 18-hour days? Nobody thinks that. So why bring it up? However, if the Republicans went away, I bet we’d have slavery again. Sure thing. **The Second Stone** , is your purpose here actually to make people dislike unions? Because if so, you’re doing a bang-up job, and actual supporters might like you to knock it off. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683/72 "2014-01-27T13:28:47Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I’m very much in favour of unions. Someone has to protect the workers from the overweening psychopathy of business. > > Are there bad unions? Sure. But there are also good unions. And bad unions can be fixed by the members. Or the members can vote with their feet. Business is not inherently psychopathic. Business is a collection of managers and workers, some good some bad. Trying to paint all business that way is as idiotic as suggesting all unions are bad. In my experience as a worker, manager and message board user, those who trumpet the benefits of unions and call for stronger influence (certainly in the UK) like to paint themselves as left wing and liberal but don’t see anything wrong in harassing and abusing those who choose not to join a union (and so legally and legitimately go about their normal daily work). They seem to have difficulty grasping the simple concept that…If I’m not in a union then it is _your_ picket line, not mine. It has nothing to do with me and if you hassle me about it then there is only one of us occupying the moral high ground. And it ain’t you. I’ve said my piece about the pernicious mentality surrounding the word “scab” but I look at it this way. If jobs of the striking workers can be filled so easily and cheaply then it calls into question the worth of the strikers in the first place, If, however your skills are critical to the survival of the business then the management will soon cave in and you have nothing to fear from the workers coming in. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683/73 "2014-01-27T14:23:01Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > What are they doing now? I worked around a bunch of union members and didn’t really hear about anything. I’ve seen mention in this thread that republicans want to take benefits away, could I please see some cites of that recent activity? There’s LOTS of news reports about it. The biggest battlefields have been on the state level lately , like Wisconsin and Ohio. > [@](#): > > The last time a union was trying to convince us to join them, they couldn’t or wouldn’t give me any specifics of what they could do for me beyond “we have a contract” and “You might not get overtime pay”. I read that contract and didn’t see anything of benefit to me that I didn’t have anyway and in some ways I had it better. Except the privilege of paying dues to them. You are known as a “freeloader.” You’re like the guy who takes cookies from the jar but doesn’t put any money into the cup next to it. You are free to do so, but you should be ashamed. You may also find that in the future, when you lose the benefits you have, you wish you had pitched in to protect them. That requires the ability to think beyond the present as well as beyond yourself though. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683/74 "2014-01-27T14:24:35Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > If unions suddenly went away, would we have to work 18-hour days? Nobody thinks that. So why bring it up?. Of course we wouldn’t work 18-hour days - at first. It would happen slowly. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683/75 "2014-01-27T14:26:01Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Why? I still haven’t seen a decent reason why I need to support or be in a union just because unions in the past got some benefits for me. Because you can lose those benefits without a union to protect them. As most workers have been experiencing in the last few decades as their pay has stopped growing and their benefits have shrunk, in direct correlation with the decline in unions. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683/76 "2014-01-27T14:44:36Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Because you can lose those benefits without a union to protect them. Which is obvious nonsense, because non-unionized industries have not lost access to public education or Social Security and employees don’t work 18 hour days. Herewith a few reasons to blame unions, all much more applicable than the foolishness of the OP - [ul][li]Greed[/li][li]Corruption[/li][li]Organized crime[/li][li]Unemployment[/li][li]Violence [/li][li]Segregation[/li][/ul] Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683/77 "2014-01-27T14:46:45Z")
Second Stone > [@](#): > > And you have no choice about it. I particularly like that you have no choice about it. This says a lot about your condition. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683/78 "2014-01-27T14:50:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Which is obvious nonsense, because non-unionized industries have not lost access to public education or Social Security and employees don’t work 18 hour days. Public education and SS are not union benefits. As for 18-hour days, no, not YET. But worker productivity has indeed grown without a corresponding growth in wages. That is reality. > [@](#): > > Herewith a few reasons to blame unions This part of your message shows me that you’re probably not worth taking seriously. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683/79 "2014-01-27T14:51:22Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I can’t help but think that the reduced role of labor unions is the primary driver of [this trend.](http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/what-happened-to-the-wage-and-productivity-link/) > > Unions can track profitability and demand their members get a cut in ways that a single worker cannot. That graph says it all. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683/80 "2014-01-27T14:56:34Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > That graph says it all. The article that accompanies the graph discusses five plausible explanations for the trend, so assuming that it’s due to the state of unions without further evidence is pretty thin soup. ETA: It also appears to only be counting wages as compensation, ignoring the role of rising costs of employer-provided health insurance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/36-reasons-why-you-should-thank-a-union/679683.md?page=5)