# 368 Economists are opposed to John Kerry

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [October 14, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142 "2004-10-14T01:59:58Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\
**Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142/1 "2004-10-14T01:59:58Z")

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There is a [pretty startling letter out today](http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_comment/release_bc04_economists.html), signed by 368 economists, including six nobel prize winners, criticising John Kerry’s economic policies:

> [@](#):
>
> We, the undersigned, strongly oppose key aspects of the economic agenda that John Kerry has offered in his bid for the U.S. presidency.
> 
> John Kerry says he “is committed to balancing the budget,” but he has proposed additional spending that some analysts have estimated could cost as much as $226.1 billion annually ($2.261 trillion over ten years). He promises to “end corporate welfare as we know it” by implementing the “McCain-Kerry commission on corporate welfare,” but he also proposes to provide additional “tax credits and subsidies to manufacturers” that meet his criteria.
> 
> Entitlement reform is the most important fiscal challenge facing the country, yet Kerry’s approach has been to deny that any fix is needed. Indeed, Kerry criticized the recent Medicare expansion for not being large enough.
> 
> John Kerry has proposed tax increases that threaten to sap the economy’s vitality and reduce long-term growth. Specifically, Kerry proposes to “restore the top two [income] tax rates to their levels under President Clinton.” He would also, among other things, “restore the capital gains and dividend rates for families making over $200,000 on income earned above $200,000 to their levels under President Clinton.” Kerry’s stated desire to balance the budget and to boost federal spending substantially would almost certainly require far higher and broader tax increases than he has proposed.
> 
> John Kerry boasts that his economic policies will lead to the creation of 10 million jobs in his first term as president. As Martin Sullivan wrote last April in the strictly non-partisan Tax Notes, no one “has presented any analysis to relate the Kerry plan to the creation of 1 million jobs, much less 10 million jobs.” In fact, we believe Kerry’s proposals would, over time, inhibit capital formation, depress productivity growth, and make the United States less competitive internationally. The end result would be lower U.S. employment and real wage growth.
> 
> John Kerry has expressed a general reluctance to reduce trade barriers. He has promised, if elected, to “review existing trade agreements.” He vows not to “sign any new trade agreements until the review is complete and its recommendations [are] put in place.” That’s a prescription for political gridlock. Given the widespread benefits of unfettered trade, Kerry’s trade policies would harm U.S. producers and consumers alike.
> 
> All in all, John Kerry favors economic policies that, if implemented, would lead to bigger and more intrusive government and a lower standard of living for the American people.

This is amazing in the sheer number of economists that have signed this. Six American Nobel Laureates in economics. Just about every university is represented. This is as wide a swath of academia you’re ever likely to find on one side of an issue.

This underscores something I’ve repeated for a long time - disagreements about things like trade and tax policy are not just a matter of opinion. They have been largely decided by economists - there is widespread agreement on the value of free trade, globalization, fewer regulation, and freer markets. And John Kerry is on the wrong side of all of them.

If you want to see the results of the Kerry-style economic policies, take a look at Europe. Not long ago, Europeans had about the same standard of living as Americans. Today, U.S. per-capita GDP is almost 40% higher than the EU average. Chronic high unemployment rates, huge debt, and a non-productive workforce are the hallmarks of interventionist economics and higher taxes on the productive.

Comments?

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**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\
**Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142/2 "2004-10-14T02:23:03Z")

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How many of them are employed by conservative think-tanks?

And where was this emphasis on credentials when [a group of scientists, including 10 Nobel laureates, condemned Bush’s policies?](http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/scitech/SciTechRepublish_1209740.htm)

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**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\
**Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142/3 "2004-10-14T02:31:19Z")

</div>

This line stands out:  
“Kerry’s stated desire to balance the budget and to boost federal spending substantially would almost certainly require far higher and broader tax increases than he has proposed.”

This doesn’t make sense. Bush’s plans actually cost more than Kerry’s, so why do Kerry’s plans require far higher tax increases?

Does not compute.  
“Almost certainly” is also a use of weasel words. Basically, they are saying it is not certain. But the way they phrase it is intended to make people get the impression that it is, as it seems to have done for you.  
Finally, I think it is more likely that in the “almost” certain, but not certain, case that Kerry does need more money for his plans, he would cut back on the plans rather than raise taxes.

Apparently, these economists completely ignore that possibility, and assume that Kerry would raise taxes more, despite him saying he would not.

It’s easy to argue against a position that Kerry never took, which is exactly what these economists are doing.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\
**Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142/4 "2004-10-14T02:36:26Z")

</div>

**rjung** said:

> [@](#):
>
> How many of them are employed by conservative think-tanks?

Read the list yourself.

> [@](#):
>
> Burton A. Abrams  
> University of Delaware
> 
> Douglas K. Adie  
> Ohio University
> 
> Richard Agnello  
> University of Delaware
> 
> William Albrecht  
> University of Iowa
> 
> Donald L. Alexander  
> Western Michigan University
> 
> William R. Allen  
> University of California , Los Angeles
> 
> Ryan C. Amacher  
> University of Texas-Arlington
> 
> Annelise Anderson  
> The Hoover Institution, Stanford University
> 
> Martin Amderson  
> The Hoover Institution, Stanford University
> 
> Wayne Angell  
> Angell Economics (proprietor)
> 
> Jim Araji  
> University of Idaho
> 
> Richard K. Armey  
> Former U.S. House Majority Leader
> 
> John Baden  
> Foundation for Research on Economics and the Environment
> 
> Charles W. Baird  
> California State University , Hayward
> 
> Anatol Balbach  
> Private Economist
> 
> Ray Ball  
> University of Chicago
> 
> A. Paul Ballantyne  
> University of Colorado at Colorado Springs
> 
> King Banaian  
> St. Cloud State University
> 
> Andy Barnett  
> Auburn University
> 
> Howard J. Beales III  
> George Washington University
> 
> Stacie Beck  
> University of Delaware
> 
> Gary S. Becker  
> University of Chicago
> 
> Don Bellante  
> University of South Florida
> 
> David BenDaniel  
> Cornell University
> 
> Bruce Bender  
> University of Wisconsin — Milwaukee
> 
> Bruce L. Benson  
> Florida State University
> 
> M. Douglas Berg  
> Sam Houston State University
> 
> John J. Bethune  
> Barton College
> 
> Bob Bise  
> Orange Coast College
> 
> Michael K. Block  
> University of Arizona
> 
> Cecil E. Bohanon  
> Ball State University
> 
> Donald R. Booth  
> Chapman University
> 
> G. Geoffrey Booth  
> Michigan State University
> 
> George Borjas  
> Harvard University
> 
> George Borts  
> Brown University
> 
> Michael J. Boskin  
> Stanford University
> 
> John H. Boyd  
> University of Minnesota
> 
> Michael W. Brandl  
> The University of Texas at Austin
> 
> Wayne Brough  
> Citizens for a Sound Economy
> 
> David Brown  
> University of Wisconsin at Madison
> 
> William W. Brown  
> California State University , Northridge
> 
> John B. Bryant  
> Rice University
> 
> Phil Bryson  
> Brigham Young University
> 
> Andrzej Brzeski  
> University of California , Davis
> 
> Steve Buccola  
> Oregon State University
> 
> James Buchanan  
> George Mason University
> 
> Richard C. K. Burdekin  
> Claremont McKenna College
> 
> Rob Burrus  
> University of North Carolina — Wilmington
> 
> Jim Butkiewicz  
> University of Delaware
> 
> Steven Call  
> Metropolitan State College of Denver
> 
> Colin D. Campbell  
> Dartmouth College
> 
> Noel D. Campbell  
> North Georgia College and State University
> 
> Oral Capps, Jr.  
> Texas A&M University
> 
> John S. Chipman  
> University of Minnesota
> 
> Barry R. Chiswick  
> University of Illinois — Chicago
> 
> Richard H. Clarida  
> Columbia University
> 
> J.R. Clark  
> University of Tennessee
> 
> R. Morris Coats  
> Nicholls State University
> 
> Joe Cobb  
> Dana Point , California
> 
> Howard Cochran, Jr.  
> Belmont University
> 
> John P. Cochran  
> Metropolitan State College of Denver
> 
> John Cogan  
> The Hoover Institution, Stanford University
> 
> Boyd D. Collier  
> Tarleton State University
> 
> Roy Cordato  
> John Locke Foundation
> 
> Jim F. Couch  
> University of Northern Alabama
> 
> Eleanor Craig  
> University of Delaware
> 
> Ward S.Curran  
> Trinity College
> 
> Michael R. Darby  
> University of California , Los Angeles
> 
> Larry Davidson  
> Indiana University
> 
> Otto Davis  
> Carnegie Mellon University
> 
> Ronnie H. Davis  
> Florida Institute of Technology
> 
> Steve Davis  
> University of Chicago
> 
> Ed Day  
> University of Central Florida (retired)
> 
> Arthur De Vany  
> University of California , Irvine (emeritus)
> 
> Thomas DeLeire  
> Michigan State University
> 
> Gregory J. Delemeester  
> Marietta College
> 
> Henry Demmert  
> Santa Clara University
> 
> Christopher DeMuth  
> American Enterprise Institute
> 
> Craig A. Depken, II  
> Private economist
> 
> William G. Dewald  
> Ohio State University
> 
> Arthur M. Diamond, Jr.  
> University of Nebraska at Omaha
> 
> Jeff Dorfman  
> University of Georgia
> 
> William C. Dunkelberg  
> Temple University
> 
> Robert M. Dunn, Jr.  
> George Washington University
> 
> Parnell Duverger  
> Broward Community College
> 
> Dennis S. Edwards  
> Coastal Carolina University
> 
> Isaac Ehrlich  
> State University of New York at Buffalo
> 
> Jeffrey A. Eisenach  
> CapAnalysis, LLC
> 
> Dennis F. Ellis  
> University of Michigan at Flint
> 
> Michael A. Ellis  
> Kent State University
> 
> Eric Engen  
> American Enterprise Institute
> 
> Michael R. Englund  
> Action Economics, LLC
> 
> Stephen J. Entin  
> Institute for Research on the Economics of Taxation
> 
> Michael Erickson  
> Albertson College
> 
> Richard E. Ericson  
> East Carolina University
> 
> Fred G. Esposto  
> Kutztown University
> 
> Paul Evans  
> Ohio State University
> 
> Frank Falero  
> California State University (emeritus)
> 
> Allen M. Featherstone  
> Kansas State University
> 
> Martin Feldstein  
> Harvard University
> 
> Paul J. Feldstein  
> University of California , Irvine
> 
> Arthur A. Fleisher, III  
> Metro State College of Denver
> 
> Harold Flint  
> Montclair State University
> 
> Sean Flynn  
> Vassar College
> 
> Fred Foldvary  
> Santa Clara University
> 
> William F. Ford  
> Middle Tennessee State University
> 
> Blair L. Fortner  
> The Senate Majority Fund ( Missouri )
> 
> Micah Frankel  
> California State University
> 
> D. C. Frechtling  
> George Washington University
> 
> Gary L. French  
> Nathan Associates, Inc.
> 
> Milton Friedman  
> The Hoover Institution
> 
> Kenneth C. Froewiss  
> New York University, Stern School of Business
> 
> B. Delworth Gardner  
> Brigham Young University
> 
> Dave Garthoff  
> University of Akron
> 
> Gerald Garvey  
> Claremont Graduate University
> 
> James F, Gatti  
> University of Vermont
> 
> Gregory M. Gelles  
> University of Missouri — Rolla
> 
> Joseph A. Giacalone  
> St. John’s University
> 
> Adam Gifford  
> California State University, Northridge
> 
> Otis W. Gilley  
> Louisiana Tech University
> 
> Edward L. Glaeser  
> Harvard University
> 
> Amy Jocelyn Glass  
> Texas A&M University
> 
> Richard F. Gleisner  
> St. Cloud State University
> 
> Charles J. Goetz  
> University of Virginia
> 
> Rodolfo A. Gonzalez  
> San Jose State University
> 
> John C. Goodman  
> National Center for Policy Analysis
> 
> Richard L. Gordon  
> Pennsylvania State University
> 
> Ernie Goss  
> Creighton University
> 
> Scott F. Grannis  
> Western Asset Management
> 
> Bettina Bien Greaves  
> Foundation for Economic Education
> 
> William B. Green  
> Sam Houston State University
> 
> Ken Greene  
> Binghamton University
> 
> John Greenhut  
> Arizona State University West
> 
> Earl L. Grinols, III  
> Baylor University
> 
> Daniel M. Gropper  
> Auburn University
> 
> James Gwartney  
> Florida State University
> 
> Rik Hafer  
> Southern Illinois University, Edwardsville
> 
> Dennis Halcoussis  
> California State University, Northridge
> 
> Stephen Happel  
> Arizona State University
> 
> Scott Harrington  
> University of South Carolina
> 
> James E. Hartley  
> Mount Holyoke College
> 
> Kevin Hassett  
> American Enterprise Institute
> 
> Joel W. Hay  
> University of Southern California
> 
> Cary Heath  
> University of Louisiana at Lafayette
> 
> Robert H. Heidt  
> Indiana University at Bloomington
> 
> Dale M. Heien  
> University of California, Davis
> 
> Robert B. Helms  
> American Enterprise Institute
> 
> James W. Henderson  
> Baylor University
> 
> Robert Herren  
> North Dakota State University
> 
> Irving Hoch  
> University of Texas at Dallas (emeritus)
> 
> Harold M. Hochman  
> Lafayette College (emeritus)
> 
> Robert J. Hodrick  
> Columbia University
> 
> Milton L. Holloway  
> Resource Economics, Inc.
> 
> George Horwich  
> Purdue University (emeritus)
> 
> Glenn Hubbard  
> Columbia University
> 
> James L. Huffman  
> Lewis & Clark Law School
> 
> Larry Hunter  
> Empower America
> 
> E. Bruce Hutchinson  
> University of Tennessee at Chattanooga
> 
> Selahattin Imrohoroglu  
> University of Southern California
> 
> Chris Inama  
> Golden Gate University
> 
> F. Jerry Ingram  
> University of Louisiana-Monroe
> 
> F. Owen Irvine  
> Michigan State University
> 
> Steve Jackstadt  
> University of Alaska — Anchorage
> 
> Joseph M. Jadlow  
> Oklahoma State University
> 
> Austin Jaffe  
> Penn State University
> 
> Sherry Jarrell  
> Wake Forest University
> 
> Michael C. Jensen  
> Harvard Business School
> 
> Dennis A. Johnson  
> University of South Dakota (emeritus)
> 
> Clifton T. Jones  
> Stephen F. Austin State University
> 
> Jerry L. Jordan  
> Fraser Institute
> 
> Richard E. Just  
> University of Maryland
> 
> Alexander Katkov  
> Johnson & Wales University
> 
> Raymond J.Keating  
> Small Business Survival Committee
> 
> Kristen Keith  
> University of Toledo
> 
> Calvin A. Kent  
> Marshall University
> 
> B.F. Kiker  
> University of South Carolina
> 
> Robin Klay  
> Hope College
> 
> Paul Koch  
> Olivet Nazarene University
> 
> Meir Kohn  
> Dartmouth College
> 
> James W. Kolari  
> Texas A&M University
> 
> Roger Kormendi  
> University of Michigan Business School
> 
> Melvyn Krauss  
> Hoover Institution, Stanford University
> 
> Robert C. Krol  
> California State University at Northridge
> 
> Randall S. Kroszner  
> University of Chicago
> 
> Michael M. Kurth  
> McNeese State University
> 
> Richard La Near  
> Missouri Southern State University
> 
> Arthur B. Laffer  
> Laffer Associates
> 
> William E. Laird  
> Florida State University
> 
> Deepak Lal  
> University of California — Los Angeles
> 
> Russell Lamb  
> Economic Consultant, Washington , D.C.
> 
> Nicholas A. Lash  
> Loyola University
> 
> Robert A. Lawson  
> Capital University
> 
> Ed Lazear  
> Stanford University
> 
> Don R. Leet  
> California State University at Fresno
> 
> John Leeth  
> Bentley College
> 
> Ken Lehn  
> University of Pittsburgh
> 
> Noreen Lephardt  
> Marquette University
> 
> Adam Lerrick  
> University of Nebraska — Lincoln
> 
> Cotton M. Lindsay  
> Clemson University
> 
> Larry Lindsey  
> American Enterprise Institute
> 
> Allan E. Lines  
> Ohio State University
> 
> Luis Locay  
> University of Miami
> 
> Dennis E. Logue  
> University of Oklahoma
> 
> James R. Lothian  
> Fordham University
> 
> John Lott  
> American Enterprise Institute
> 
> Lawrence W. Lovik  
> Troy State University
> 
> Harold I. Lunde  
> Bowling Green State University (emeritus)
> 
> John Lunn  
> Hope College
> 
> Donald L. Luskin  
> Trend Macrolytics
> 
> Paul W. MacAvoy  
> Yale University
> 
> Glenn MacDonald  
> Washington University
> 
> Doug MacKenzie  
> Ramapo College of New Jersey
> 
> Joseph P. Magaddino  
> California State University, Long Beach
> 
> Burton Malkiel  
> Princeton University
> 
> Yuri N. Maltsev  
> Carthage College
> 
> Henry G. Manne  
> George Mason University School of Law (emeritus)
> 
> Richard Manning  
> Pfizer, Inc.
> 
> Dick Marcus  
> University of Wisconsin — Milwaukee
> 
> Michael L. Marlow  
> California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
> 
> Craig Marxsen  
> University of Nebraska at Kearney
> 
> Scott Masten  
> University of Michigan
> 
> John G. Matsusaka  
> University of Southern California
> 
> Merrill Matthews  
> Institute for Policy Innovation
> 
> Paul W. McCracken  
> University of Michigan
> 
> Rachel McCulloch  
> Brandeis University
> 
> Lawrence J. McQuillan  
> Pacific Research Institute
> 
> Tom Means  
> San Jose State University
> 
> David I. Meiselman  
> Virginia Tech (emeritus)
> 
> Allan Meltzer  
> Carnegie Mellon University
> 
> Lloyd J. Mercer  
> University of California, Santa Barbara
> 
> John Merrifield  
> University of Texas at San Antonio
> 
> Jim Miller  
> Former Reagan Budget Director
> 
> Tracy Miller  
> Grove City College
> 
> David E. Mills  
> University of Virginia
> 
> Mario J. Miranda  
> Ohio State University
> 
> Ronald L. Moomaw  
> Oklahoma State University
> 
> Steve Moore  
> Club for Growth
> 
> John C. Moorhouse  
> Wake Forest University
> 
> Paul Morgan  
> Westmont College
> 
> Michael A. Morrisey  
> University of Alabama at Birmingham
> 
> Andrew P. Morriss  
> Case Western University
> 
> Robert Mundell  
> Columbia University
> 
> Michael Munger  
> Duke University
> 
> John Murray  
> University of Toledo
> 
> Anthony Negbenebor  
> Gardner-Webb University
> 
> Jon P. Nelson  
> Penn State University
> 
> George Neumann  
> University of Iowa
> 
> Seth Norton  
> Wheaton College
> 
> William H. Oakland  
> Tulane University
> 
> Lee E. Ohanian  
> University of California , Los Angeles
> 
> David J. O’Hara  
> Metropolitan State University
> 
> June O’Neill  
> Baruch College, City University of New York
> 
> Lydia Ortega  
> San Jose State University
> 
> Bill Orzechowski  
> Orzechowski and Walker
> 
> Karen Palasek  
> John Locke Foundation
> 
> Randall E. Parker  
> East Carolina University
> 
> E.C. Pasour, Jr.  
> North Carolina State University
> 
> Judd W. Patton  
> Bellevue University
> 
> William Peirce  
> Case Western Reserve University (emeritus)
> 
> Tim Perri  
> Appalachian State University
> 
> Mark J. Perry  
> University of Michigan — Flint
> 
> William H. Peterson  
> Heritage Foundation
> 
> Christopher Pflaum  
> Spectrum Economics, Inc.
> 
> Charles R. Plott  
> California Institute of Technology
> 
> Ivan Pongracic, Jr.  
> Hillsdale College
> 
> Barry Poulson  
> University of Colorado
> 
> Edward C. Prescott  
> Arizona State University
> 
> Jan S. Prybyla  
> Pennsylvania State University
> 
> Richard Rahn  
> Discovery Institute
> 
> John Rapp  
> University of Dayton
> 
> Eric Rasmusen  
> Indiana University
> 
> Martin A. Regalia  
> United States Chamber of Commerce
> 
> Spencer S. Reibman  
> Georgia State University
> 
> Ralph R. Reiland  
> Robert Morris University
> 
> George Reisman  
> Pepperdine University
> 
> Christine P. Ries  
> Georgia Institute of Technology
> 
> Nancy Roberts  
> Arizona State University
> 
> David C. Rose  
> University of Missouri
> 
> Robert J. Rossana  
> Wayne State University
> 
> Timothy Roth  
> University of Texas at El Paso
> 
> Charles K. Rowley  
> George Mason University
> 
> Paul H. Rubin  
> Emory University
> 
> Roy Ruffin  
> University of Houston
> 
> John Ruggiero  
> University of Dayton
> 
> Mark Rush  
> University of Florida
> 
> Gary J. Santoni  
> Ball State University (emeritus)
> 
> Thomas R. Saving  
> Texas A&M University
> 
> Mike Schuyler  
> Institute for Research on the Economics of Taxation
> 
> G. William Schwert  
> University of Rochester
> 
> Carole E. Scott  
> State University of West Georgia
> 
> John J. Seater  
> North Carolina State University
> 
> Carlos Seiglie  
> Rutgers University
> 
> Richard T. Selden  
> University of Virginia
> 
> Barry J. Seldon  
> University of Texas at Dallas
> 
> John Semmens  
> Phoenix College
> 
> Jacobus T. Severiens  
> John Carroll University
> 
> Sol S. Shalit  
> University of Wisconsin
> 
> Alan C. Shapiro  
> University of Southern California
> 
> Stephen Shmanske  
> California State University, Hayward
> 
> William F. Shughart II  
> University of Mississippi
> 
> George P. Shulrz  
> The Hoover Institution, Stanford University
> 
> John E. Silvia  
> Wachovia
> 
> Neil T. Skaggs  
> Illinois State University
> 
> Charles Skipton  
> University of Tampa
> 
> Mark Skousen  
> Columbia University
> 
> Amy Smith  
> The Lindsey Group
> 
> Clifford W. Smith  
> Simon School of Business, University of Rochester
> 
> James F. Smith  
> University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
> 
> Kenneth R. Smith  
> University of Arizona
> 
> Neil Snyder  
> University of Virginia
> 
> Russell Sobel  
> West Virginia University
> 
> David L. Sollars  
> Washburn University
> 
> John C. Soper  
> John Carroll University
> 
> Douglas Southgate  
> Ohio State University
> 
> David E. Spencer  
> Brigham Young University
> 
> Frank Spreng  
> McKendree College
> 
> Beryl Sprinkel  
> B.W. Sprinkel Economics
> 
> Stan Spurlock  
> Mississippi State University
> 
> Ben Stein  
> Pepperdine University
> 
> Craig Stephenson  
> Babson College
> 
> E. Frank Stephenson  
> Berry College
> 
> Courtenay C. Stone  
> Ball State University
> 
> Marc Sumerlin  
> The Lindsey Group
> 
> Daniel A. Sumner  
> University of California, Davis
> 
> Richard Sweeney  
> Georgetown University
> 
> Thomas L. Tacker  
> University of Central Florida
> 
> Robert Tamura  
> Clemson University
> 
> Lester Telser  
> University of Chicago
> 
> Rebecca Thacker  
> Ohio University
> 
> Clifford T. Thies  
> Shenandoah University
> 
> Henry Thompson  
> Auburn University
> 
> Robert Tollison  
> Clemson University
> 
> Leo Troy  
> Rutgers University
> 
> David G. Tuerck  
> Suffolk University
> 
> Gordon Tullock  
> George Mason University
> 
> Charlotte Twight  
> Boise State University
> 
> Charles Upton  
> Kent State University
> 
> T. Norman Van Cott  
> Ball State University
> 
> Richard Vedder  
> Ohio University
> 
> Robert Vigil  
> Analysis Group, Inc.
> 
> J. Antonio Villamil  
> Former U.S. Under Secretary of Commerce for Economic Affairs
> 
> Kip Viscusi  
> Harvard University
> 
> John Volpe  
> Trinity College
> 
> Richard E. Wagner  
> George Mason University
> 
> William B Walstad  
> University of Nebraska — Lincoln.
> 
> John T. Warner  
> Clemson University
> 
> Thayer Watkins  
> San Jose State University
> 
> Andrew Weinbach  
> Armstrong Atlantic State University
> 
> Michael Welker  
> Franciscan University of Steubenville
> 
> John T. Wenders  
> University of Idaho
> 
> Walter J. Wessels  
> North Carolina State University
> 
> Robert Whaples  
> Wake Forest University
> 
> Gilbert Whitaker  
> Rice University
> 
> John Wicks  
> University of Montana
> 
> Gary W. Williams  
> Texas A&M University
> 
> Michael Williams  
> University of Denver
> 
> Walter E. Williams  
> George Mason University
> 
> Mark Wilson  
> Appalachian State University
> 
> Gary Wolfram  
> Hillsdale College
> 
> Gene C. Wunder  
> Washburn University
> 
> Richard Yamarone  
> Argus Research Group
> 
> DeVan L. Yoho  
> Ball State University
> 
> Andrew Yuengert  
> Pepperdine University
> 
> Paul Zak  
> Claremont Graduate University
> 
> Mokhlis Zaki  
> Northern Michigan University
> 
> Arnold Zellner  
> University of Chicago
> 
> Benjamin Zycher  
> Pacific Research Institute

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\
**Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142/5 "2004-10-14T02:43:39Z")

</div>

Well, let’s take the first 3 shall we?

Burton A. Abrams - Professor of Economics, University of Delaware  
[Recent Publications](http://www.be.udel.edu/economics/New%20Fac%20Minivita/abrams.htm)  
“Campaign-Finance Reform: A Public-Choice Perspective,” (with Russell F. Settle), Public Choice, forthcoming.  
“The Effect of Government Size on the Unemployment Rate,” Public Choice, 99 (3-4), 1999.  
“Women’s Suffrage and the Growth of the Welfare State,” (with R. F. Settle) Public Choice, 100 (3-4), 1999.

Douglas K. Adie - Professor of Economics, Yorktown University  
From his [CV](http://www.yorktownuniversity.com/adie.html):  
“He has testified before Congressional Committees on the unemployment effects of minimum wages” and “has been listed by the Heritage Foundation as a policy expert since 1984.”

Richard J. Agnello - Associate Professor of Economics, University of Deleware  
[Recent Publications](http://www.be.udel.edu/economics/New%20Fac%20Minivita/agnello.htm):  
“Investment Returns and Risk for Art: Evidence from Auctions of American Paintings.” Eastern Economic Review, Vol. 28, No. 4: 443-464, Fall, 2002.  
Book Review of Painting Outside the Lines: Patterns of Creativity in Modern Art in Economic History Services, May, 2002.  
“Returns and risk for art: findings from auctions of American paintings differentiated by artist, genre, and quality,” Economics of Art Auctions (G. Mossetto and M. Vecco, eds.), Franco Angeli, Milano, pp.39-70. 2002.  
“Property Rights and Efficiency in the Oyster Industry” (with L. Donnelley), originally published, Journal of Law and Economics, Vol. 18, No. 2, 521-533; reprinted in Tom Tietenberg et al, eds., The International Library of Environmental Economics and Policy, Vol. II, Nov., 2001.  
“Financial Returns, Price Determinants, and Genre Effects in American Art Investment,” (with R. Pierce), Journal of Cultural Economics, Vol. 20, No. 4, 1996.  
So far we have two conservatives and an art and oyster expert. Very impressive.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\
**Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142/6 "2004-10-14T02:45:03Z")

</div>

Interesting… from a randomized poll conducted by _The Economist_ of academic economists published last week showed that academic economists far favored Kerry’s overall economic planning as opposed to Bush’s.

Of course, Kerry got reamed for wanted to restrict free-trade and his tirades against job outsourcing, but the strong majority of economists was much more critical of Bush’s lackadaisical attitudes towards fiscal policy; increasing government involvement and spending in a number of areas without making corresponding cuts in other areas like social spending nor making any real strides against the major demographic crises that the US will be facing in terms of a run-away social security system.

So, I guess what **Sam Stone** is really trying to point out to all of intelligent, learned Dopers is that it’s not very bright for anyone to base a policy decision based upon these “open political letters” that have become so popular. There are a lot of any type of experts out there, and 368 economists doesn’t mean much compared with randomized sampling and actual surveys of a group of professionals. Right, **Sammy?**

[http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story\_id=S')(%24\*P1\_%%20P"L &tranMode=none](http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=S%27%29%28%24%2AP1%5F%25%20P%22L%0A&tranMode=none)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\
**Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142/7 "2004-10-14T02:48:57Z")

</div>

But, but, but there were 368 of them. And they signed affidavits!

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\
**Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142/8 "2004-10-14T02:50:54Z")

</div>

All I have to say is, don’t be dissin’ oysters. Best appetizers on the planet.  
As for the idea that any majority of economists would favor Bush, well, that’s laughable in the extreme. I read all kinds of financial stuff, and outside of the Saturday morning Fox News investment shows, which have become nothing but pro-Bush roundtables, the overwhelming evidence I see is a realization of just how disastrous Bush’s free-spending policies have been.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\
**Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142/9 "2004-10-14T02:51:53Z")

</div>

> [@Sam Stone](#):
>
> There is a [pretty startling letter out today](http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_comment/release_bc04_economists.html), signed by 368 economists, including six nobel prize winners, criticising John Kerry’s economic policies:

What is most startling (well, maybe not once you read it) is how they had to go down to University of East Timbucktoo in order to find that many economists willing to sign on to this. And, I am just shocked to hear that economists a Laffer Institute, the American Enterprise Institute, Fraser Institute, John Locke Foundation, and Pfizer support Bush! Who’d have thunk it?!?!

Are we to expect that the next 3 weeks you will be keeping us abreast of all the Bush campaign press releases by starting threads like this? It’s gonna be a long 3 weeks!

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\
**Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142/10 "2004-10-14T02:53:49Z")

</div>

> [@Sam Stone](#):
>
> Read the list yourself.

Way to sidestep the question, Sam (and you know you’re sidestepping the question). Of the three that I researched, one (Abrams) is a past fellow of the Hoover Institution, another (Adie) is listed by the Heritage Foundation as an “expert” (although of what, I don’t know), and the last (Agnello - the art and oyster expert) is a friggin expert on art and oysters.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\
**Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142/11 "2004-10-14T03:05:57Z")

</div>

> [@rjung](#):
>
> And where was this emphasis on credentials when [a group of scientists, including 10 Nobel laureates, condemned Bush’s policies?](http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/scitech/SciTechRepublish_1209740.htm)

Actually, [UCS’s letter on the Bush Administrations abuse of science](http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environment/rsi/page.cfm?pageID=1449) has now been signed onto by over 5000 scientists, including 48 Nobel Prize winners and 62 National Medal of Science recipients. Here’s a list of prominent signatories with a key showing their awards:

> [@](#):
>
> National Medal of Science \*  
> Nobel Laureate †  
> Crafoord Prize #  
> National Academy of Science ^
> 
> Andreas Acrivos \* ^  
> City College of the City University of New York
> 
> Edward Adelberg ^  
> Yale University
> 
> Eric Adelberger ^  
> University of Washington
> 
> Peter Agre † ^  
> Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
> 
> Don L. Anderson \* # ^  
> California Institute of Technology
> 
> Philip W. Anderson \* † ^  
> Princeton University
> 
> Nancy C. Andreasen \*  
> University of Iowa College of Medicine
> 
> Francisco J. Ayala \* ^  
> University of California, Irvine
> 
> David Baltimore \* † ^  
> California Institute of Technology
> 
> Paul Berg \* † ^  
> Stanford University School of Medicine
> 
> R. Stephen Berry ^  
> University of Chicago
> 
> Rosina Bierbaum  
> University of Michigan
> 
> Nicolaas Bloembergen \* † ^  
> University of Arizona
> 
> Felix Boehm ^  
> California Institute of Technology
> 
> Paul D. Boyer † ^  
> University of California, Los Angeles
> 
> Lewis M. Branscomb ^  
> Harvard University
> 
> Ronald Breslow \* ^  
> Columbia University
> 
> Robert H. Burris \* ^  
> University of Wisconsin, Madison
> 
> Dr. John Cairns, Jr. ^  
> Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
> 
> Eric Chivian †  
> Harvard Medical School
> 
> Joel E. Cohen ^  
> The Rockefeller University
> 
> Eric Conn ^  
> University of California, Davis
> 
> Robert W. Corell  
> American Meteorological Society
> 
> F. Albert Cotton \* ^  
> Texas A&M University
> 
> James Cronin \* † ^  
> University of Chicago
> 
> James Crow ^  
> University of Wisconsin
> 
> James E. Darnell, Jr. \* ^  
> The Rockefeller University
> 
> Margaret Davis ^  
> University of Minnesota
> 
> Mark Davis ^  
> University of California, Berkeley
> 
> Johann Deisenhofer † ^  
> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
> 
> Theodor O. Diener \* ^  
> University of Maryland
> 
> Carl Djerassi \* ^  
> Stanford University
> 
> Paul M. Doty ^  
> Harvard University
> 
> Renato Dulbecco † ^  
> Salk Institute
> 
> Paul Ehrlich # ^  
> Stanford University
> 
> Herman Eisen ^  
> Massachusetts Institute of Technology
> 
> Thomas Eisner \* ^  
> Cornell University
> 
> S. Walter Englander ^  
> University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine
> 
> William K. Estes \* ^  
> Indiana University
> 
> John B. Fenn †  
> Virginia Commonwealth University
> 
> Christopher Field ^  
> Carnegie Institution of Washington
> 
> Gerald D. Fischbach ^  
> Columbia University Medical School
> 
> Edmond Fischer † ^  
> University of Washington
> 
> Val L. Fitch \* † ^  
> Princeton University
> 
> Jerry Franklin  
> University of Washington
> 
> Gerhart Friedlander ^  
> Brookhaven National Laboratory
> 
> Jerome Friedman † ^  
> Massachusetts Institute of Technology
> 
> Mary Gaillard ^  
> University of California, Berkeley
> 
> Richard L. Garwin \* ^  
> International Business Machines Corporation
> 
> Murray Gell-Mann † ^  
> Santa Fe Institute
> 
> John H. Gibbons  
> Former Science Advisor to the President
> 
> Walter Gilbert † ^  
> Harvard University
> 
> Sheldon L. Glashow † ^  
> Boston University
> 
> Marvin L. Goldberger ^  
> California Institute of Technology
> 
> Lynn R. Goldman  
> John Hopkins School of Public Health
> 
> Peter Goldreich \* ^  
> Institute for Advanced Study
> 
> Kurt Gottfried  
> Cornell University
> 
> David Grimes  
> University of North Carolina School of Medicine
> 
> Roger Guillemin \* †  
> Salk Institute
> 
> Henry C. Harpending ^  
> University of Utah
> 
> Richard Havel ^  
> University of California, San Francisco
> 
> Dudley Herschbach \* † ^  
> Harvard University
> 
> Roald Hoffmann \* † ^  
> Cornell University
> 
> John P. Holdren ^  
> Harvard University
> 
> Norman Horowitz ^  
> California Institute of Technology
> 
> H. Robert Horvitz † ^  
> Massachusetts Institute of Technology
> 
> David H. Hubel † ^  
> Harvard University
> 
> John Huchra ^  
> Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
> 
> Daniel H. Janzen # ^  
> University of Pennsylvania
> 
> Leo P. Kadanoff \* ^  
> University of Chicago
> 
> Eric R. Kandel \* † ^  
> Columbia University
> 
> Anne Kapuscinski  
> University of Minnesota
> 
> Daniel Kleppner ^  
> Massachusetts Institute of Technology
> 
> Walter Kohn \* † ^  
> University of California, Santa Barbara
> 
> Arthur Kornberg \* † ^  
> Stanford University School of Medicine
> 
> Lawrence Krauss  
> Case Western Reserve University
> 
> Herbert Kroemer † ^  
> University of California, Santa Barbara
> 
> Neal F. Lane  
> Former Science Advisor to the President
> 
> Robert B. Laughlin † ^  
> Stanford University
> 
> Alexander Leaf ^  
> Harvard Medical School
> 
> Leon M. Lederman \* † ^  
> Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
> 
> David M. Lee † ^  
> Cornell University
> 
> Anthony Leggett † ^  
> University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
> 
> Simon Levin ^  
> Princeton University
> 
> Gene Likens \* ^  
> Institute of Ecosystem Studies
> 
> William Lipscomb † ^  
> Harvard University
> 
> Jane Lubchenco ^  
> Oregon State University
> 
> Michael C. MacCracken  
> International Association of Meteorology and Atmospheric Sciences
> 
> Lynn Margulis \* ^  
> University of Massachusetts
> 
> Paul A. Marks \* ^  
> Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center
> 
> Douglas S. Massey ^  
> Princeton University
> 
> James J. McCarthy  
> Harvard University
> 
> Harden M. McConnell \* ^  
> Stanford University
> 
> Jerry M. Melillo  
> Woods Hole Research Center
> 
> N. David Mermin ^  
> Cornell University
> 
> Matthew S. Meselson ^  
> Harvard University
> 
> David Michaels  
> George Washington University
> 
> Charles D. Michener ^  
> University of Kansas
> 
> Mario Molina † ^  
> Massachusetts Institute of Technology
> 
> Walter H. Munk \* ^  
> University of California, San Diego
> 
> Joseph E. Murray † ^  
> Harvard Medical School
> 
> Louis Nirenberg \* # ^  
> New York University
> 
> Marshall Nirenberg \* † ^  
> National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute
> 
> Michael Oppenheimer  
> Princeton University
> 
> Gordon Orians ^  
> University of Washington
> 
> Douglas D. Osheroff † ^  
> Stanford University
> 
> Jeremiah P. Ostriker \* ^  
> Princeton University
> 
> George E. Palade \* † ^  
> University of California, San Diego
> 
> W.K.H. Panofsky \* ^  
> Stanford University
> 
> Eugene N. Parker \* ^  
> University of Chicago
> 
> Martin L. Perl † ^  
> Stanford University
> 
> David Perkins ^  
> Stanford University
> 
> Thomas D. Petes  
> University of North Carolina
> 
> Gregory Petsko ^  
> Brandeis University
> 
> Norman Phillips ^  
> National Weather Service
> 
> Stuart Pimm  
> Duke University
> 
> Robert V. Pound \* ^  
> Harvard University
> 
> Ron Pulliam  
> University of Georgia
> 
> Norman F. Ramsey \* † ^  
> Harvard University
> 
> Stuart A. Rice \* ^  
> University of Chicago
> 
> Anthony Robbins  
> Tufts University School of Medicine
> 
> John D. Roberts \* ^  
> California Institute of Technology
> 
> Wendell L. Roelofs \* ^  
> Cornell University
> 
> Allan Rosenfield  
> Columbia University School of Public Health
> 
> John Ross \* ^  
> Stanford University
> 
> F. Sherwood Rowland † ^  
> University of California, Irvine
> 
> Janet D. Rowley \* ^  
> University of Chicago Medical Center
> 
> Vera Rubin \* ^  
> Carnegie Institution of Washington
> 
> Eli Ruckenstein \*  
> State University of New York at Buffalo
> 
> Liane Russell ^  
> Oak Ridge National Laboratory
> 
> Edwin E. Salpeter # ^  
> Cornell University
> 
> Allan Sandage \* #  
> The Observatories of the Carnegie Institution of Washington
> 
> William Schlesinger ^  
> Duke University
> 
> J. Robert Schrieffer \* † ^  
> National High Magnetic Field Laboratory
> 
> Dana S. Scott ^  
> Carnegie Mellon University
> 
> Andrew Sessler ^  
> Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
> 
> Roger N. Shepard \* ^  
> Stanford University
> 
> Robert Silbey ^  
> Massachusetts Institute of Technology
> 
> Richard Smalley † ^  
> Rice University
> 
> Franklin Stahl ^  
> University of Oregon
> 
> Jack Steinberger \* † ^  
> European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN)
> 
> Joan A. Steitz \* ^  
> Yale University School of Medicine
> 
> Felicia Stewart  
> University of California, San Francisco
> 
> Henry Taube \* † ^  
> Stanford University
> 
> Saul Teukolsky ^  
> Cornell University
> 
> E. Donnall Thomas \* † ^  
> Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center
> 
> George Tilton ^  
> University of California, Santa Barbara
> 
> Kevin Trenberth  
> National Center for Atmospheric Research
> 
> Myron Tribus  
> Massachusetts Institute of Technology
> 
> Daniel Tsui † ^  
> Princeton University
> 
> Harold E. Varmus \* † ^  
> Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center
> 
> Gerald J. Wasserburg # ^  
> California Institute of Technology
> 
> Robert A. Weinberg \* ^  
> Massachusetts Institute of Technology
> 
> Steven Weinberg \* † ^  
> University of Texas, Austin
> 
> Frank H. Westheimer \* ^  
> Harvard University
> 
> Gilbert F. White \* ^  
> University of Colorado
> 
> Eric Wieschaus † ^  
> Princeton University
> 
> E.O. Wilson \* # ^  
> Harvard University
> 
> Edward Witten \* ^  
> Institute for Advanced Study
> 
> Lincoln Wolfenstein ^  
> Carnegie Mellon University
> 
> George M. Woodwell ^  
> Woods Hole Research Center
> 
> Donald Wuebbles  
> University of Illinois
> 
> Charles Yanofsky ^  
> Stanford University
> 
> Herbert F. York  
> University of California, San Diego
> 
> Bruno Zumino ^  
> University of California, Berkeley

But, of course, these are all just a bunch of liberal egg-heads, so who should listen to them? 😉 And, admittedly, they don’t include people at right-wing (or left-wing) think-tanks or at such prestigious places as University of Toledo, Boise State University, and Appalachian State University like Sam’s list, but hey…What can you do?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\
**Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142/12 "2004-10-14T03:06:54Z")

</div>

> [@threemae](#):
>
> Interesting… from a randomized poll conducted by _The Economist_ of academic economists published last week showed that academic economists far favored Kerry’s overall economic planning as opposed to Bush’s.
> 
> Of course, Kerry got reamed for wanted to restrict free-trade and his tirades against job outsourcing, but the strong majority of economists was much more critical of Bush’s lackadaisical attitudes towards fiscal policy; increasing government involvement and spending in a number of areas without making corresponding cuts in other areas like social spending nor making any real strides against the major demographic crises that the US will be facing in terms of a run-away social security system.

I’m curious. Were these economists comparing what Bush did in the last term with what Kerry says he going to doing in the upcoming? Hell, if Kerry can do what he says he’s gonna do I’d vote for him in a heartbeat. In order to pull that off he’d have to be the Magical Man from Happyland, and I’d be living in a gumdrop house on Lollipop Lane.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\
**Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142/13 "2004-10-14T03:15:10Z")

</div>

[169 Business Scool Profs Dis Bush:](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/12/opinion/13forbush-final.html)

> [@](#):
>
> In a recent open letter, 169 economists and business school professors, including 56 professors from Harvard Business School, your alma mater, sharply criticized your economic policies. They said your proposals for Social Security and making the tax cuts permanent “only promise to exacerbate the crisis” and that “your tax policy has exacerbated the problem of inequality in the United States.” Do you dismiss these critics as uninformed? If not, what would you say to persuade them they are wrong?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Leonard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@Leonard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leonard)\
**Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142/14 "2004-10-14T03:16:49Z")

</div>

I think I just wore my mouse wheel out.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\
**Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142/15 "2004-10-14T03:30:16Z")

</div>

So several responses to the effect of, ‘But…but…they are probably conservatives!’, and none actually addressing the economists’ concerns?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\
**Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142/16 "2004-10-14T03:41:43Z")

</div>

My short and flippant answer is, who cares? Economy is theory, not hard science. It is educated guessing. Economists are often just as wrong as the rest of us. Greenspan for one has been crying about the end of the world, well since forever. They just use bigger words. Also, the Heritage foundation is not exactly nonpartisan. But, that’s OK, art and oyster experts are always right.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\
**Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142/17 "2004-10-14T03:45:41Z")

</div>

> [@Brutus](#):
>
> So several responses to the effect of, ‘But…but…they are probably conservatives!’, and none actually addressing the economists’ concerns?

We know what their concerns are…That John Kerry hasn’t drunk the supply-side Kool-Aid, that John Kerry actually bases his economic policies on reasons rather than hokey theories that haven’t been shown to match empirical reality.

And, sure, there’s probably a little bit of wild optimism in Kerry’s claiming that he would create 10 million jobs over the next 4 years. But, hey, any jobs created would be an improvement since under Bush we will have lost on the order of a million jobs during his term while turning our structural surplusses into large structural deficits all in the name of “stimulus” (or at least that became the excuse once the recession came…the original marketing was different, but hey, you gotta change the marketting, **not (heaven forbid!) the product**, to fit the facts).

As for entitlement reform, well, social security is solvent out for close to an estimated 40 more years without any changes at all. What will have to change, however, is that by ~2017, we won’t be able to balance the budget on the backs of workers by using the social security surplusses to fund the rest of government and will have to actually start to repay some of what we borrowed from S.S. after that. This is why Bush’s lack of fiscal discipline is so scary. [And, Bush’s idea of private accounts, as Kerry points out, only worsens the problem over the forseeable future by reducing the money going into the social security trust fund.]

Medicare is going to be a bigger problem…as are medical costs in general…but I haven’t heard any great plans from Bush in this regard either (except to structure the new drug coverage benefit so that it gives the maximum amount of money to the drug companies and the minimum amount of help to seniors).

How much you want to bet that almost all of these same economists were warning of the same sort of disasters happening when Clinton was running in '92?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\
**Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142/18 "2004-10-14T03:50:24Z")

</div>

Well, since you mentioned Europe…… France passed the Aubry Law in 1998 which created a 35 hr workweek in order to bring unemployment down. While they managed to get it into single digits they have not gained much in relation to their European counterparts. Right now they are at 9.9% (which is a slight rise over their previous 9.8% rate). While this probably looked good on paper it did nothing for French productivity and has not improved their standing in the Euro community.

**"France has a mandatory [35-hour workweek](http://www.bizsites.com/2002/may/article.asp?id=63) and extended vacation time for workers across the country. This is not unusual—for a number of EU countries, 35 hours is standard. For a U.S. company looking to set up a manufacturing location, this means five shifts per week, versus four shifts in the U.S. Taking into account the combination of a 35-hour work week, plus allowances for extended holiday coverage, a company would need to hire 234 workers in France (and the Netherlands and U.K.), while an East German location, with a 40-hour work week, would require 180 workers, according to recent Fluor research"**

I would think the French economists would come to a consensus on the cause but that is not the case  
\*\*  
“The rise also confounded economists expectations for the unemployment rate to remain unchanged at 9.8 percent.” \*\*

President Bush inherited a recession at the same time a war was waged directly at the US economy. Despite this the United States is far ahead of the average European unemployment rate. This was done using the time-tested method of tax reductions to stimulate the economy.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\
**Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142/19 "2004-10-14T03:51:10Z")

</div>

> [@Squink](#):
>
> [169 Business Scool Profs Dis Bush:](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/12/opinion/13forbush-final.html)

Wow, 56 professors at Harvard Business School alone?!?! How many professors do they even have there?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\
**Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/368-economists-are-opposed-to-john-kerry/269142/20 "2004-10-14T03:53:29Z")

</div>

> [@Magiver](#):
>
> This was done using the time-tested method of tax reductions to stimulate the economy.

The time-tested way is to give the tax cuts to the people that will spend the money (poor and middle class). The Bush way was to give the majority to the wealthy and to make the cuts permanent so that those cuts kept on giving to those wealthy long after the need for stimulus was gone. That’s why he created so little stimulus while fucking up the fiscal situation so badly.

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