# 3D Printing and Plastic Guns **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 7, 2013, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671 "2013-05-07T01:19:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671/61 "2013-05-09T17:14:54Z")
> [@RedSwinglineOne](#): > > I’m not worried about someone printing a crappy single shot plastic gun and doing something nefarious with it. What is more worrying is someone (possibly in a secure area) downloading a scan of a real .45 from the internet and printing what appears to be a real gun. They could do that now with some clay and paint. [Or buy them online.](http://http://www.411toys.com/air.html) (FWIW, selling and buying fake guns is illegal in the Netherlands. Especially since people here know so little about guns, and so seldomly see a real one, stores could easily be held up with even the most unrealistic toy guns. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671/62 "2013-05-09T17:17:27Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > You may have inferred that, but I implied no such thing. Right, which is why you only mentioned the US, not the dozens of other countries that allow people to own firearms. > [@](#): > > I said “the majority of people in the world live in countries where few, if any, adults can legally own firearms”. Do you dispute that? Yes. Not only is it a meaningless statement (“few” can mean whatever you want it to), but I’m not sure if it’s even correct. I do know that it’s a claim that has no teeth, even if it’s true. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671/63 "2013-05-09T17:48:18Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Right, which is why you only mentioned the US, not the dozens of other countries that allow people to own firearms. I mentioned the US because this is US-based forum. In this thread, like many others, the perspective was mostly from an American POV. I’m not complaining about this, I just pointed out for the purpose of this thread that, worldwide, it is not the case that you can simply pop to your nearest gunstore. > [@](#): > > Yes. Not only is it a meaningless statement (“few” can mean whatever you want it to), but I’m not sure if it’s even correct. I do know that it’s a claim that has no teeth, even if it’s true. So you dispute it _and_ think it’s meaningless. I think that you are being obtuse. I think it would be clear to most people whether a given country’s firearms law belongs to the set “Countries where few, if any, adults can legally own firearms”. And, any straightforward reading of the the gun laws in some of the highest populated countries in the world – China, India, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Japan etc would include them in that set. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671/64 "2013-05-09T17:53:12Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > The point is simply that _most people don’t know how to make a gun_. Or set up a functional machine shop. And they are unwilling to invest the time it would take to even investigate whether it is feasible. > > [snip] > > So, yeah I think a hypothetical where you buy a device at wal-mart, grab a file on P2P and press “go”…is radically different. The people you need to be afraid of most certainly are capable of the abive, however. You don’t have to worry about somebody making a really terrible plastic gun. You may need to worry about somebody already owning a Saturday Night Special. You probably need to worry about people who spend a lot of time carefully planning sadistic and random attacks. But you can’t control the latter very well anyhow. ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671/65 "2013-05-09T18:03:21Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Here’s the point some here are missing: It doesn’t matter if you think it is easy to make a basic gun. It doesn’t matter if it _is_ easy to make a basic gun. > > The point is simply that _most people don’t know how to make a gun_. Or set up a functional machine shop. And they are unwilling to invest the time it would take to even investigate whether it is feasible. Well I agree, and made that same exact point upthread.. > [@RedSwinglineOne](#): > > … I think the real problem is that the perceived ease of printing one of these guns will cause people who wouldn’t otherwise try to build one will now try. My point is that I don’t think we have to worry about criminals running around with plastic guns committing crimes. What we have to worry about is 12 year-olds blowing their fingers off. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671/66 "2013-05-09T18:10:35Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I mentioned the US because this is US-based forum. In this thread, like many others, the perspective was mostly from an American POV. > I’m not complaining about this, I just pointed out for the purpose of this thread that, worldwide, it is not the case that you can simply pop to your nearest gunstore. > > So you dispute it _and_ think it’s meaningless. > > I think that you are being obtuse. I think it would be clear to most people whether a given country’s firearms law belongs to the set “Countries where few, if any, adults can legally own firearms”. > And, any straightforward reading of the the gun laws in some of the highest populated countries in the world – China, India, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Japan etc would include them in that set. Aren’t there something like 3 million households with firearms in India, and another 17 million that own them illegally? You’ve claimed that the majority of people live in countries where gun are only legal for a few and that illegal ones are very difficult to obtain. There’s like 40 million guns in civillian hands in China, and another 40 million in India. They’re definitely not as easy to come by as in the US, but they appear to be there for people who want them. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671/67 "2013-05-09T19:16:19Z")
> [@RedSwinglineOne](#): > > Do they have chunks of metal and drill bits in these countries? Because almost any piece of metal with a hole drilled in it would make a better gun than that printed gun. > I think people are giving way to much credit to the quality or usefulness of a printed plastic gun. The only thing that is complicated about that gun is the trigger mechanism, which can be accomplished with a rubber band and a nail. If you ignore the trigger mech, it is nothing more than a piece of plastic with a hole drilled in it. Yes, this is all a gimmick. Sure, with a 3D printer a dude made a “gun” that fired one shot before it malfunctioned. He didn’t need the printer. He could have done the same with a block of plastic and a drill. He could have made a far more dangerous gun with scrap metal. The “gun” also required adding a metal firing pin and of course real store-bought ammo. It would be easier, & cheaper to make a zip gun from scrap metal. The end gun would be less dangerous to shoot, more reliable and more accurate. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671/68 "2013-05-09T19:22:51Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > There would be an easy way to discourage the home fabrication of plastic guns. > > Set up sites that look like they give the open source software necessary to make a plastic gun. Then slip in the software a very subtle, almost invisible design flaw that will make the gun unusable, or even mildly dangerous to use. For instance, it should not explode in the illegal users’s hand, but it should go “poof” after an undeterminded amount of shots and melt hot plastic over the shooters hand, or something. > > If that does not discourage home printing of guns, I don’t know what will. Oddly, that exactly what any 3D printed gun would do, and exactly what the much touted internet version _did_. It shot one round, very inaccurately and then jammed. It’s not a ‘design flaw’ it’s inherent when you make a gun out of extruded plastic. Now, yes, the printer can make something that really LOOKS like a gun. So in jurisdictions where realistic toy guns are outlawed this may well replace fake guns carved out of a bar of soap or something. So as far as deadly weapons getting into the hands of dudes with a 3d printer- there are no worries. As far as realistic looking fakes being used for hold-ups? Sure. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671/69 "2013-05-09T19:27:35Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Here’s the point some here are missing: It doesn’t matter if you think it is easy to make a basic gun. It doesn’t matter if it _is_ easy to make a basic gun. > > The point is simply that _most people don’t know how to make a gun_. Or set up a functional machine shop. And they are unwilling to invest the time it would take to even investigate whether it is feasible. > > So, yeah I think a hypothetical where you buy a device at wal-mart, grab a file on P2P and press “go”…is radically different. There’s a youtube vid that shows how to make a zip gun “in less than two minutes”. If you Google “how to make a zip gun” you’ll get all the sites you want, including step by step instructions. Few of which require a ‘machine shop”. (Certainly the one in the video doesn’t). They use to make them with a car aerial, a nail and a rubber band, attached to a block of wood or a handle from a toy gun. So, go to youtube, hit play and “go”. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671/70 "2013-05-09T21:59:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > There’s a youtube vid that shows how to make a zip gun “in less than two minutes”. If you Google “how to make a zip gun” you’ll get all the sites you want, including step by step instructions. Few of which require a ‘machine shop”. (Certainly the one in the video doesn’t). They use to make them with a car aerial, a nail and a rubber band, attached to a block of wood or a handle from a toy gun. > > So, go to youtube, hit play and “go”. Still misses the point. Firstly, if you don’t know what a zip gun is, you don’t know how easy it is to make one. It’s irrelevant how easy it is to someone for whom it’s an “unknown unknown”. Secondly, the significance of this printed gun is just that it is the first. Undoubtedly, the designs will improve, and the range of materials you can print with will increase. So even if it barely exceeds the performance of crude tools today, who knows where it is going to lead? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671/71 "2013-05-09T22:37:23Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Secondly, the significance of this printed gun is just that it is the first. Undoubtedly, the designs will improve, and the range of materials you can print with will increase. > So even if it barely exceeds the performance of crude tools today, who knows where it is going to lead? When they can do different metals, then worry. Until then, it’s not a concern. ---
**Author:** ![busterpickle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@busterpickle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/busterpickle)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671/72 "2013-05-09T23:04:04Z")
Even if they print with metals it’s still not a real worry. 3D printing will be the future of manufacturing technology for many reasons. However, we are still in the dark ages. Even the sintered metal prints are fragile, I have one, and it developed cracks just sitting on my desk. I would rather shoot with an ABS gun over the metal ones as I have a serious fear of the metal one disintegrating upon firing. ABS expands and distorts when heated. It’s a real issue in the 3D printing world hence why people like to use PLA (a corn based plastic) or they use a heated bed. But, the machine that the guy used actually heats up the entire build area like an oven. That way, as the layers are put down they don’t warp. The point of this statement is that it’s not going to be easy to print, a working, ABS gun without a professional grade machine. The used one cost him $8k off of eBay. You can buy a lot of working guns and ammo off of the black market for $8k. Also, each round required a new barrel as the old one becomes unusable once fired. Another issue. It’s a one trick pony, that’s it. Oh yeah, it is not the first plastic gun. I have seen a rifle made from injected plastic before that shot small .22 rounds. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671/73 "2013-05-09T23:18:52Z")
> [@electronbee](#): > > Even if they print with metals it’s still not a real worry. 3D printing will be the future of manufacturing technology for many reasons. However, we are still in the dark ages. Even the sintered metal prints are fragile, I have one, and it developed cracks just sitting on my desk. I would rather shoot with an ABS gun over the metal ones as I have a serious fear of the metal one disintegrating upon firing. I have seen an artist that uses a sintered metal process. Then the sintered metal has a bit of the object put in molten bronze which allows the bronze to wick through the object giving you a much more durable object. > **[Bathsheba Sculpture - Making Metal](https://www.bathsheba.com/sculpt/process/)** ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671/74 "2013-05-09T23:41:32Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > When they can do different metals, then worry. Until then, it’s not a concern. You’re the third person now who has told me not to worry. I’m not worried. It’s an interesting topic to me because of the effect that this technology might have, in the future, on gun control around the world. And yeah “in the future”. So I find this development interesting because of its significance rather than believing it’s ready to go now (and someone is going to kit out an army with what looks like a water pistol with a nail stuck in it). ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671/75 "2013-05-10T00:14:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, this is all a gimmick. Sure, with a 3D printer a dude made a “gun” that fired one shot before it malfunctioned. . In the pit thread about this, I posted a link to a PBS reporter saying he saw the gun shoot 10 times in a video, twice in person. It didn’t fire one shot and malfunction. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671/76 "2013-05-10T02:44:12Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > In the pit thread about this, I posted a link to a PBS reporter saying he saw the gun shoot 10 times in a video, twice in person. It didn’t fire one shot and malfunction. And there was another that when watched in person, fired once, then jammed. Videos? Have you not watched Mythbusters? Very easily faked. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671/77 "2013-05-10T13:20:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And there was another that when watched in person, fired once, then jammed. > > Videos? Have you not watched Mythbusters? Very easily faked. Yeah, you’ve kinda boxed yourself in by saying: 1. Zip guns can only fire once before jamming 2. Printed guns won’t be as good as zip guns for at least a decade [Cite](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16275373&postcount=11). Yeah, you added the caveat of “as long as they can only do plastic”. But that’s a restriction _you’ve_ added. To most people, a printed weapon that requires a metal nail (and bullets) is still a printed weapon. Hence the media and public interest. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671/78 "2013-05-10T13:59:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And there was another that when watched in person, fired once, then jammed. It’s a single shot, it only shoots once. It’s not jamming. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671/79 "2013-05-10T15:36:09Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Yeah, you’ve kinda boxed yourself in by saying: > > 1. Zip guns can only fire once before jamming > 2. Printed guns won’t be as good as zip guns for at least a decade > > [Cite](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16275373&postcount=11). > > Yeah, you added the caveat of “as long as they can only do plastic”. But that’s a restriction _you’ve_ added. To most people, a printed weapon that requires a metal nail (and bullets) is still a printed weapon. Hence the media and public interest. Umm, no. Zip guns are single shot weapons. They don’t fire once then have to be repaired as was shown with the plastic “gun”. They fire once and are reloaded. The caveat of "as long as “they can only do plastic” was talking about the current 3D printer that work in plastic, not metal. It’s certainly not impossible to have a 3D printer that does metal. Certainly the new plastic ‘guns” need a metal part or two, that’s not the point I was making. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671/80 "2013-05-10T15:37:20Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > It’s a single shot, it only shoots once. It’s not jamming. It fired once- then broke and had to be repaired. Now, I suppose one can argue that’s not “jamming” but that’s not like a normal single shot where you fire then reload. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-and-plastic-guns/657671.md?page=5)