# 3D Printing Guns **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 30, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818 "2013-01-30T15:25:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818/41 "2013-03-22T02:44:13Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > Instead why don’t we make the penalty so incredibly severe that anyone caught modifying or illegally using something would think twice. :rolleyes:I’ve posted this before, and I’ll post it again: We can have all the draconian punishments we want on the books. If they are not applied they mean absolutely dick! My example for this is armed robbery. Carries a max penalty of 40 years. Offenders rarely get 10% of that. A shitbag _might_ think twice about holding up a gas station if he actually thought he’d spend the next 40 years locked up. But seeing the average is about 36 months they don’t think about it at all. The penalty could be a zillion years. If judges don’t apply it it doesn’t even matter. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818/42 "2013-03-22T16:54:09Z")
Wired has an interesting [article](http://www.wired.com/business/2013/03/ideas-not-dinner-plates-are-the-future-of-3-d-printing/all/) on the subject of 3D printing. It explains the recent surge in popularity (expired patents) and why it won’t grow as fast as computer technology. It briefly touches on guns. > [@](#): > > TechShop’s Hatch has a less prosaic vision for 3-D printing’s future and its value. “The killer app in most industrial uses is the value of having a prototype quickly,” Hatch says. “It isn’t likely going to be functional without a lot of post processing, but that is OK. A quick prototype beats an elaborate research report and PowerPoint every time.” > > (Hatch, a former Green Beret, has thoughts on the printing of weapons too. “Sure it could be done, very expensively, very poorly, and very slowly,” Hatch says. “It would be way easier to simply make one with standard industrial tools available on eBay. Today, printing weapons is a red herring. Only an idiot would use a 3-D printed gun or knife.”) ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818/43 "2013-03-22T20:33:41Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > My example for this is armed robbery. Carries a max penalty of 40 years. Offenders rarely get 10% of that. A shitbag _might_ think twice about holding up a gas station if he actually thought he’d spend the next 40 years locked up. But seeing the average is about 36 months they don’t think about it at all. The penalty could be a zillion years. If judges don’t apply it it doesn’t even matter. I highly doubt this actually matters to criminals. They assume they won’t get caught, and if so, hey, free room and board for the foreseeable future. These people are desperate, and not good with math or thinking ahead. Is there any evidence anywhere that incarceration periods correlate with reduced crime rates? And I don’t mean “there are fewer murders than robberies”. I mean, if the average prison sentence for a particular crime goes up, does the rate of that particular crime go down? Has that ever been shown? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818/44 "2013-03-22T20:43:02Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > They assume they won’t get caught, and if so, hey, free room and board for the foreseeable future. These people are desperate, and not good with math or thinking ahead. I agree with the first point, but in my small experience they aren’t desperate. Certainly not good a math or thinking ahead, though. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818/45 "2013-03-22T21:18:47Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Is there any evidence anywhere that incarceration periods correlate with reduced crime rates? And I don’t mean “there are fewer murders than robberies”. I mean, if the average prison sentence for a particular crime goes up, does the rate of that particular crime go down? Has that ever been shown? Yes, but the studies tend to be skewed one way or another to reflect the agenda of those presenting the study. But common sense does dictate that a thug can’t assault or kill a convenience store clerk during a robbery if he’s still locked up for a burglary he was convicted of years ago. I stick by my insistance that the increase in tax payer dollars to keep such scum locked up is minute’ compared to the expense of law enforcement, courts, and jailing of the same person over and over and over again in our revolving door justice system. Not to mention the human suffering such dirtbags inflict upon others between their times of incarceration. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818/46 "2013-03-22T22:24:11Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > But common sense does dictate that a thug can’t assault or kill a convenience store clerk during a robbery if he’s still locked up for a burglary he was convicted of years ago. Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818/47 "2013-05-07T00:52:36Z")
\ Apparently [shots have now been fired from a 3D printed gun](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/06/3-handgun-fired-cody-wilson). The gun is completely fabbed and ABS plastic, apart from the firing pin. Which is a nail. Obviously it’s not the most practical or effective weapon right now, but it’s proof of concept when many people thought it impossible. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818/48 "2013-05-07T00:59:50Z")
You can shoot someone with a whole magazine of .380, and they will beat you to death with a bar stool while they bleed to death. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818/49 "2013-05-07T01:05:16Z")
> [@toofs](#): > > The whole 3D printing of guns paranoia is foolish. In another thread I wrote about a guy I personally know who CNC milled an AR-15 lower receiver from a solid block of aluminum. He even anodized it himself at home. Real deal, real metal. > > The capability to make firearms at home ALREADY EXISTS. Metal guns, made to blueprint tolerances. People were already doing it, long before the 2012 “on noes, 3D printed guns!” scare. But how many people would know how to do that? Assuming we really had 3-D printers that could print out weapons roughly as good as normal manufacturing methods, we’d be talking about a situation where anyone who just knew how to punch a few buttons could print out a copy of a machine gun if they felt like it. That’s a lot easier than making a weapon with tools. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818/50 "2013-05-07T02:31:40Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > But how many people would know how to do that? How many people have an $8,000 dollar 3D printer? I bet that many more have access to a machine shop. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818/51 "2013-05-07T02:41:27Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > How many people have an $8,000 dollar 3D printer? > > I bet that many more have access to a machine shop. > > 🙂 I bet the opposite. Many more people have $8000 to spend on pricey toys than have “access” to machine shops, especially if by “access” you include the skills to use all the equipment and build what they want. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818/52 "2013-05-07T02:45:15Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > How many people have an $8,000 dollar 3D printer? > > I bet that many more have access to a machine shop. What makes you presume that price is set for all time? And I expect a criminal would find it easier to grab $8000 dollars (or just steal the machine itself) than to get machinist training and the equipment to go with it. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818/53 "2013-05-07T02:50:04Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > What makes you presume that price is set for all time? > > And I expect a criminal would find it easier to grab $8000 dollars (or just steal the machine itself) than to get machinist training and the equipment to go with it. True, but a criminal will find it far easier to just get or steal a gun, and then they’ll have a far better gun that won’t fall apart or explode after a few shots. 3D printing is still very far from being the cheapest or easiest path for a criminal to get a gun. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818/54 "2013-05-07T02:53:12Z")
One can make a “gun” like the one in the video with a pipe, some wood, a rubber band and a thumb tack. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818/55 "2013-05-07T02:56:26Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > What makes you presume that price is set for all time? > > And I expect a criminal would find it easier to grab $8000 dollars (or just steal the machine itself) than to get machinist training and the equipment to go with it. If one could just “grab” $8,000, I’d do that and buy a sweet PC and a car. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818/56 "2013-05-07T03:04:30Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > But how many people would know how to do that? > > Assuming we really had 3-D printers that could print out weapons roughly as good as normal manufacturing methods, we’d be talking about a situation where anyone who just knew how to punch a few buttons could print out a copy of a machine gun if they felt like it. That’s a lot easier than making a weapon with tools. It’s a long way from that. 3-D printing and fashioning a gun like this isn’t quite as easy as just pushing a button, you’ll need some technical expertise and experience. It’s easier than machining something sure, but machining a weapon you can actually create a rudimentary and reusable firearm. While the population of people who can machine their own firearms is small, the truth is there is actually probably a lot of overlap between that population and people who even know what a 3D printer is, and how to actually use one and get everything just right. Right now it’s a fairly inconvenient and very expensive way to make the world’s shittiest, single shot firearm that has a decent chance of exploding during use and will almost certainly catastrophically fail after a few uses. But you are correct about why some people fear this, eventually the technology will most likely mature. What is probably scaring people more about this weapon is it is almost entirely plastic. You could actually loud up some equipment with pre-set plans for machining metal as well which could produce a much more dangerous gun, I’d assume eventually that sort of thing will be done as cheaply and as easily as 3-D printing as well. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818/57 "2013-05-07T03:59:09Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > One can make a “gun” like the one in the video with a pipe, some wood, a rubber band and a thumb tack. > :rolleyes: that was my thinking. A hobbyist milling machine and a chunk of plastic. There was even a movie about someone who built such a gun to get past security to do evil things (insert hero at last possible moment). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2013, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818/58 "2013-05-07T04:07:34Z")
actually you could make a fairly lethal disposable gun with a mousetrap and a shotgun shell. So rather than spend $8K someone could spend $8. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818/59 "2013-05-10T21:55:44Z")
[State Department forces activist Cody Wilson to remove printed-gun specs from his website.](http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/05/09/3d-gun-printer-defense-distributed-pull-weapon-specs-off-website/) ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818/60 "2013-05-10T22:15:19Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [State Department forces activist Cody Wilson to remove printed-gun specs from his website.](http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/05/09/3d-gun-printer-defense-distributed-pull-weapon-specs-off-website/) > [@](#): > > More than 100,000 copies of the plans were downloaded before the federal government took the files. So, close, but no cigar, State Department. Nice try, though! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3d-printing-guns/648818.md?page=4)