# 3M sues price gougers who sold masks **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 11, 2020, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3m-sues-price-gougers-who-sold-masks/855452 "2020-06-11T13:36:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3m-sues-price-gougers-who-sold-masks/855452/1 "2020-06-11T13:36:40Z")
Hope this suit succeeds > **[3M sues price-gougers who used Amazon to sell masks at 1,800% markup](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/06/3m-sues-price-gougers-who-used-amazon-to-sell-masks-at-1800-markup/)** > > 3M is as tired of those shady pop-up resellers as defrauded customers are. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3m-sues-price-gougers-who-sold-masks/855452/2 "2020-06-12T01:28:57Z")
Why does 3M have any standing? That article mentions “resellers” repeatedly, so this isn’t about pirated/counterfeit 3M goods; it’s about re-sold 3M goods. Not sure 3M has standing to complain, if it’s their own, legitimate stuff. FWIW, price gouging is good. Research it. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3m-sues-price-gougers-who-sold-masks/855452/3 "2020-06-12T01:30:30Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > FWIW, price gouging is good. Research it. Really? Got a credible cite for that? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3m-sues-price-gougers-who-sold-masks/855452/4 "2020-06-12T01:45:22Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Why does 3M have any standing? That article mentions “resellers” repeatedly, so this isn’t about pirated/counterfeit 3M goods; it’s about re-sold 3M goods. Actually some of the goods were counterfeit and others were altered or damaged. The article quotes the complaint, “operated an illegal scheme to advertise and sell counterfeit, damaged, deficient, or otherwise altered respirators”. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3m-sues-price-gougers-who-sold-masks/855452/5 "2020-06-12T01:51:31Z")
I think if they were selling first-rate goods, even at a crazy markup, 3M would have no cause for complaint. ---
**Author:** ![CelticKnot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/celticknot/32/3392_2.png) [@CelticKnot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CelticKnot)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3m-sues-price-gougers-who-sold-masks/855452/6 "2020-06-12T11:48:37Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > Really? Got a credible cite for that? Will you accept John Stossel? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqMFBdWkfo0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqMFBdWkfo0) ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3m-sues-price-gougers-who-sold-masks/855452/7 "2020-06-12T12:29:42Z")
Libertarian people think gouging is a great idea but there are still many laws against it . Don’t know if any of the laws were repealed or thrown out in court. ---
**Author:** ![CelticKnot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/celticknot/32/3392_2.png) [@CelticKnot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CelticKnot)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3m-sues-price-gougers-who-sold-masks/855452/8 "2020-06-12T14:55:59Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Libertarian people think gouging is a great idea but there are still many laws against it . Don’t know if any of the laws were repealed or thrown out in court. There’s a saying that just because it’s legal doesn’t make it right. A corollary would be just because it’s illegal doesn’t mean it’s bad. Libertarians want destructive and freedom-stifling laws repealed. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3m-sues-price-gougers-who-sold-masks/855452/9 "2020-06-12T15:03:00Z")
> [@CelticKnot](#): > > There’s a saying that just because it’s legal doesn’t make it right. A corollary would be just because it’s illegal doesn’t mean it’s bad. > > Libertarians want destructive and freedom-stifling laws repealed. Libertarians want _all_ laws repealed. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3m-sues-price-gougers-who-sold-masks/855452/10 "2020-06-12T15:26:53Z")
Libertarians are OK with many criminal laws such as laws against rape, murder, robbery, etc. Anarchists want no laws. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3m-sues-price-gougers-who-sold-masks/855452/11 "2020-06-12T15:55:17Z")
Libertarians only want the freedom-stifling laws repealed, but they think that almost all laws are freedom-stifling. The only way to reach the libertarian conclusion is to start by defining “free” as “lack of laws”. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3m-sues-price-gougers-who-sold-masks/855452/12 "2020-06-12T23:53:12Z")
There are degrees of libertarianism, thank you very much. “No laws” is anarchy, and groups naturally develop rules. My point was neo-liberal, which is often confused with libertarianism. In any case, I still don’t see standing. If I sell my shoddy Chrysler, FCA doesn’t have standing. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3m-sues-price-gougers-who-sold-masks/855452/13 "2020-06-13T04:37:43Z")
Saying price gouging is good is saying that the poor deserve to not get things when supplies are short. There are better tactics, like quotas, to manage low supplies, which don’t favor the rich. If someone buys something at low supply for cheap and resells it for a lot more, they haven’t added that much more value into the system. They’re just leeches that keep those who actually need it from getting it. The idea that people who need it most will be able to pay the most money is ridiculous. And 3M has standing because they were marketing fake or damaged goods as 3M goods. That’s a trademark violation. Of course they have standing–just like Rolex could sue someone for selling fake Rolexes. Not that I wouldn’t be for them being able to sue for gray market price gouging directly. Like I said, it only causes harm to those who need it most and enriches people who provide no economic value. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3m-sues-price-gougers-who-sold-masks/855452/14 "2020-06-13T05:06:49Z")
Masks are not nothing, but people have even [price-gouged insulin](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/coronavirus-insulin-price-gougers.html), something Banting worked hard to try to prevent. It is hard to argue that people deserve to get ripped off on medical supplies. That article raises the important point that excessive prices in general, not only in an emergency, have often been legal and are also the subject of legal challenges related to price-gouging statutes. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3m-sues-price-gougers-who-sold-masks/855452/15 "2020-06-14T01:26:15Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Saying price gouging is good is saying that the poor deserve to not get things when supplies are short. There are better tactics, like quotas, to manage low supplies, which don’t favor the rich. If someone buys something at low supply for cheap and resells it for a lot more, they haven’t added that much more value into the system. They’re just leeches that keep those who actually need it from getting it. The idea that people who need it most will be able to pay the most money is ridiculous. You’re forgetting about geography, though. If there’s no toilet paper available here in Michigan, someone might be able to bring it from somewhere else. But it will cost them, and they’ll need to make up that expense for the arbitrage. But they can’t, because it’s price-gouging. If you let everyone price gouge, you know what happens? Competition, and price equalization. Early adopters might have overpaid, but they are the ones who valued it more. Perfectly reasonable. > [@](#): > > And 3M has standing because they were marketing fake or damaged goods as 3M goods. That’s a trademark violation. Of course they have standing–just like Rolex could sue someone for selling fake Rolexes. For fake, then I agree they have standing. I’ve not read in depth, which is why I keep asking. Damaged goods? I refer you back to my Chrysler example. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3m-sues-price-gougers-who-sold-masks/855452/16 "2020-06-14T01:39:44Z")
You haven’t read in depth? Did you even read any of the article linked to in the OP? The first couple of sentences makes clear why they have standing.