# 3rd Democratic Debate 12/19/15 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 18, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788 "2015-12-18T17:45:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/21 "2015-12-19T02:20:32Z")
The problem with the Dem debates is that they consist of politicians debating issues. For the masses, this is kind of boring. It’s [no contest](http://www.vox.com/2015/11/16/9742782/cbs-democratic-debate-viewership) compared with the pure entertainment of Republican debates. The Republican debates are a kind of combined SNL and _Daily Show_ skit – Trump, with his orange mane flailing, calling everyone incompetent and an idiot, his mouth working like the frantic asshole of a constipated baboon as he tells everyone that his Wall is going to be “great”, it’s going to be a great wall; Ted Cruz threatening nuclear hellfire on every Middle Eastern country on earth; Marco Rubio threatening conventional hellfire on everyone; Carly Fiorina practicing her high school debating techniques; and John Kasich for some inexplicable reason demonstrating how a black-belt karate _shodan_ could reduce the podium to splinters. The parody writes itself. I didn’t even see the junior debate where I presume Sancto Santorum was predicting the Apocalypse because of homosexuals. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/22 "2015-12-19T03:10:05Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > I’m not so sure, after the shenanigans with the DNC locking the Sanders campaign out of their addresses database and the Sanders campaign suing them. Sanders’s campaign manager had some strong things to say today. Well given that the cause was his campaign staff clearly breaking the rules and behaving unethically … I doubt _he’ll_ bring it up. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/23 "2015-12-19T03:35:12Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Well given that the cause was his campaign staff clearly breaking the rules and behaving unethically … I doubt _he’ll_ bring it up. Not clear at all. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/24 "2015-12-19T03:46:36Z")
Well, the DNC is in a bit of a twist now. There are a couple petitions for the removal of Debbie Wasserman Shultz as chair. Bernie is really getting screwed over. It does not seem his people did anything malicious to warrant losing access to his own data. Gotta say, as much as the GOP doesn’t want Trump, at least they’re not actively handicapping him. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/25 "2015-12-19T03:53:05Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Well given that the cause was his campaign staff clearly breaking the rules and behaving unethically … I doubt _he’ll_ bring it up. > [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Not clear at all. According to [this article](http://www.npr.org/2015/12/18/460273748/bernie-sanders-campaign-locked-out-of-key-voter-file-after-data-breach), the Sanders campaign didn’t access the data only once. > [@](#): > > And he said audit files Clinton’s campaign had obtained of the breach showed it wasn’t just one staffer who accessed the data, but that their records were accessed 24 times by four different employees and that some of the data had been stored. Assuming the quoted portion is true. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/26 "2015-12-19T04:07:47Z")
Really? Tell that to Sanders who has readily admitted that the actions by his staffers were “inappropriate” and who has fired one staffer already and is deciding about the fate of other staffers involved. The fired staffer has tried to defend himself saying that this was like going into the house of someone who left their door unlocked to leave a note on their table that they left their door unlocked and then, y’know, looking around a bit, just to make sure there weren’t other doors unlocked there too. And if you happen to look through a few drawers and read the mail while in there, well it’s the fault of the person who did not lock the door like they should have. [Seriously](http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/bernie-sanders-campaign-penalized-dnc-after-improperly-accessing-clinton-voter-n482341). > [@](#): > > “It’s like if somebody leaves the front door open and you left a note inside the front door saying ‘you left the door open,’’ and then maybe you would check the side door to make sure that door was closed,” he said. Except of course that he uh didn’t leave a note … they looked at Clinton’s data files that they 100% knew they had no right to look at and left … “well we were going to tell them that the door was left open, they just caught us red-handed first.” ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/27 "2015-12-19T04:14:14Z")
There is no question Barkis that the DNC has no love for Bernie, the Independent Democratic Socialist. But this much at least is self-inflicted by his staff. Rifling through your opposition’s private data that you know you have no right to see is a big friggin’ deal. Did Bernie do it personally? No. I believe he is an ethical man. But he does have to bear the price and consequences for what his hired staff does. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/28 "2015-12-19T04:28:45Z")
Sanders is suing the DNC for cutting him off from his own data - > **[Bernie Sanders' Campaign Reaches Voter Data Deal With Democratic National...](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sanders-sues-dnc_n_56748b06e4b06fa6887d883e?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013§ion=politics)** > > It's the committee's fault, the Sanders team says, that an unauthorized data breach happened in the first place. That article also claims that the DNC database has been flawed for months. Sanders reported in October that the firewall between the candidates wasn’t working. I think the DNC is trying to cover its own ass here, by making scene. I don’t think the DNC preventing Bernie from accessing his data while allowing Clinton to continue accessing her data is going to hurt him, much, with his fans. It plays to his narrative of being an outsider fighting the establishment and her friends. It’s too easy to make this about Debbie Wasserman Schultz’ relationship with Clinton. Bernie’s lawsuit is claiming that a) the contract with the DNC does not allow them to cut off Bernie’s access and also b) most of Bernie’s staffers view the competing campaign’s information “inadvertantly”. The lawsuit goes on to claim that a similar data breach occurred in 2008, when Hilary Clinton received information about Obama’s voters because of a similar bug by the same company that was also handling the DNC’s data back then, too. Wasserman Schultz was Clinton’s campaign co-chair at the time. I have no opinion and can’t be bothered to look into the claims about the 2008 breach atm. I’m just mentioning all this. Text of the lawsuit filed on Friday, Dec 18 - [https://berniesanders.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Bernie2016vDNCComplaint.pdf](https://berniesanders.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Bernie2016vDNCComplaint.pdf) Actually, I do have an opinion - the DNC should fire the company that handles their internal data management, NGP-VAN. I’m also of the opinion that both campaigns should make themselves available for auditing, going back to October when Bernie first pointed out the security problems. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/29 "2015-12-19T05:25:56Z")
[The DNC will allow the Sanders campaign access again.](http://www.rawstory.com/2015/12/sanders-campaign-to-regain-access-to-democratic-voter-information-on-saturday/) ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/30 "2015-12-19T05:48:48Z")
Isn’t it nice when everybody gets along. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/31 "2015-12-19T06:16:44Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > [The DNC will allow the Sanders campaign access again.](http://www.rawstory.com/2015/12/sanders-campaign-to-regain-access-to-democratic-voter-information-on-saturday/) HA! I love it. Wasserman-Schultz blinked! ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/32 "2015-12-19T11:02:49Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > The vast majority of voters won’t tune in even if it was held on a weekday. The ones who truly care will watch it on Saturday (or DVR it). The rest will get their info from attack ads or friends, family, and co-workers, complete with the appropriate spin from whichever side of the fence they happen to be on. The “informed electorate” is (mostly) dead. Watching the debates is the last thing I would think of doing if I wish to be informed. They tell me nothing that I don’t already know about the candidates. The only reason to watch them is in the hopes that a candidate will have a major brain-fart or meltdown on stage, and if that happens, I can watch it on the news. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/33 "2015-12-19T14:44:19Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > [The DNC will allow the Sanders campaign access again.](http://www.rawstory.com/2015/12/sanders-campaign-to-regain-access-to-democratic-voter-information-on-saturday/) If Clinton’s campaign had done that instead of Sanders’, can you even \*imagine \*the howls of outraged condemnation from his most devoted supporters? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/34 "2015-12-19T15:15:27Z")
No question **ElvisL1ves** but the fact does remain that the choice is between a punishment that is perhaps excessive for the crime and not punishing at all. In this context probably letting it slide is more just. But the fact does remain that Sanders’ staff behaved unethically and the defense is pretty pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/35 "2015-12-19T16:38:46Z")
Has Clinton’s campaign done that? If the security was so porous, they could have very easily. When something like this happens, the first response should be to tighten up the security. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/36 "2015-12-19T17:11:07Z")
Sanders fires his national data director for taking advantage of the security breach. In other news, Clinton’s national data director was fired for NOT taking advantage of the breach. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/37 "2015-12-19T20:36:38Z")
Cute. Meanwhile to the thread … will this come up in the debate tonight? Yes, because a moderator will assuredly ask about it and try to stir the pot. Clinton’s response should be simple: “As Senator Sanders and his campaign manager have acknowledged, members of his staff inappropriately accessed files that they had no ethical right to access. Those actions may or may not have been illegal; a full inquiry is in process, as is appropriate. I understand that his staff is fully cooperating with that inquiry. That inquiry should be allowed to proceed without either of us grandstanding about it. I will state outright however that I personally do not believe that Senator Sanders himself was involved in any unethical actions or had any foreknowledge of it or attempted to cover it up in any way. And I believe that the DNC’s allowing the Sanders’ campaign team to continue to have access to their data during the inquiry process is fair. Beyond that I am _already_ sick and tired of hearing about his staff’s damn breach of my data!” For his part Sanders’ response should be to re-emphasize that he would rather talk about issues than this sort of hooplah. Claiming to be a victim because someone allowed your team to break the rules by tempting them with an unlocked door and then letting you go apparently scot-free after threatening to throw the book at you will not play well to any but those who are already the true believers. And Clinton benefits naught by punching down, it would make her look weak and hypocritical if anything. ---
**Author:** ![GloryDays](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GloryDays](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GloryDays)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/38 "2015-12-20T00:43:26Z")
between Clinton, Sanders, and O’Malley. If Biden, Feinstein, or Booker were in the race, it might have been more exciting. However, Feinstein is 82 years old, she’s too old. However, she probably should have ran in 1988. ---
**Author:** ![GloryDays](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@GloryDays](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GloryDays)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/39 "2015-12-20T02:09:15Z")
Bernie Sanders and O Malley are on the attack tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/40 "2015-12-20T02:48:43Z")
Hillary is controlling the debate. She’s looking strong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788.md?page=3)