# 3rd Democratic Debate 12/19/15 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 18, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788 "2015-12-18T17:45:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/61 "2015-12-20T13:09:48Z")
Check out CNN’s headline: “Did she go too far?” > **[Breaking News, Latest News and Videos | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/)** > > View the latest news and breaking news today for U.S., world, weather, entertainment, politics and health at CNN.com. Someone explain to me why this is a big deal. Clinton was factually wrong, but given the nature of what she was talking about(what ISIS uses as propaganda), it’s hard to get solid facts, so it should be assumed that anytime a candidate says ISIS uses American leaders’ statements as propaganda that it’s hyperbole. CNN is treating it as if it’s some kind of huge gaffe. Although if CNN’s making a big issue out of this gets politicians to just stop it with what has become one of the most tired and dumb arguments ever(what that person says gives aid and comfort to ISIS, it increases their recruiting!) then they’ll have performed a public service. It really is getting to be a new version of Godwin’s Law. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/62 "2015-12-20T13:25:21Z")
If you’re going to consider a candidate as “not serious”, then don’t invite him to the debate at all. If you do consider him serious, then give him as much time as the other serious candidates. Either is defensible (as long as there’s some sensible objective criterion for who’s “serious”), but don’t invite a candidate and then give him less time. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/63 "2015-12-20T14:30:32Z")
Only watched the first 75 minutes r so. I thought O’Malley did pretty well. He attacked a lot more than I thought he would, especially if he’s angling for some kind of position in Hillary’s administration. Every one of his attacks was met with Hillary’s obnoxious cackle, which does not make her look like a leader. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/64 "2015-12-20T15:46:34Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Check out CNN’s headline: “Did she go too far?” > > [http://www.cnn.com/](http://www.cnn.com/) > > Someone explain to me why this is a big deal. Clinton was factually wrong, but given the nature of what she was talking about(what ISIS uses as propaganda), it’s hard to get solid facts, so it should be assumed that anytime a candidate says ISIS uses American leaders’ statements as propaganda that it’s hyperbole. CNN is treating it as if it’s some kind of huge gaffe. > > Although if CNN’s making a big issue out of this gets politicians to just stop it with what has become one of the most tired and dumb arguments ever(what that person says gives aid and comfort to ISIS, it increases their recruiting!) then they’ll have performed a public service. It really is getting to be a new version of Godwin’s Law. I didn’t really think it was such a bid deal, either. But… if you’re going to accuse someone of helping Da-esh recruit fighters, you should be certain that it’s true. The accusation rises well above the run-of-the-mill accusations that politicians routinely make about each other. Clinton, though, was careful to say that Trump was “becoming” Da-esh’s best recruiting tool, not that he actually was. In the debate business, that’s we call “weasel wording”. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/65 "2015-12-20T16:21:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Check out CNN’s headline: “Did she go too far?” IMHO just like FOX news CNN is adopting many of FOX’s tactics. The rule of thumb to apply to headlines that end in a question is that they are almost always answered in the negative. > **[Donald Trump Is 'Greatest Collaborator' of ISIS](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cult-expert-donald-trump_b_8749634)** > > We need a more coherent counter-terrorism response than Donald Trump's call to "close down" parts of the Internet in response to ISIS recruitment, his labeling of free speech advocates as "foolish," and his calls to ban all Muslims from entering the... > [@](#): > > We need the funding and organization to empower everyone, not just Muslim communities, but everyone, to understand how mind control works, and the differences between how legitimate religions operate and how mind control cults like ISIS operate. > > And we need to empower survivors of extremist groups. I have helped thousands of people escape manipulative cults, and these survivors serve as early warning detectors and powerful witnesses in countering extremist mind control cults and their totalistic ideologies. > > Here’s how Donald Trump plays into the hands of ISIS online recruiters. Trump trumpets a simplistic approach that would do what ISIS wants us to do, which is marginalize Muslims and deny their freedom of mind by imposing travel bans and by closing down parts of the Internet in response to the online activities of ISIS. Instead, we should use the Internet to promote freedom of mind and other powerful, positive memes, such as justice, love, truth, goodness, creativity, individuality, and, no less important, religious liberty itself. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/66 "2015-12-20T23:38:20Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > O’Malley basically called both Hillary and Bernie old in the ISIS/Asad round with his ‘perspective from another generation’ comment. Petty and uncalled for. I liked it. Good for him. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Did O’Malley mention that he’s not a Washington insider? No, but he was a governor, and he’s actually _done_ stuff on a state level that Bernie is so far only talking about, and Hillary never got her man to do in Arkansas > [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > O who? Seriously O’Malley is running for VP and everyone knows it. Why have the pretense of giving him equal time when nothing he says matters as he has zero chance at the nomination? This race is between Hillary and Bernie. That O’Malley is there at all is either a joke or a concession. You have a funny idea of how contests are supposed to work. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/67 "2015-12-20T23:44:21Z")
I think Bernie may be the better candidate, not least because I come from an area with a lot of gun ownership, but I was gratified to see O’Malley fight the way he did on the gun control issue. Though both he and Sanders seemed to hit questions they didn’t want to answer on that issue. (I’ll answer it! Confiscation? Yes, at least of some firearms, eventually. But the first thing you do is constrict manufacturing, and let the supply start to go down. It may take years to start pulling rifles out of private owners’ hands.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/68 "2015-12-20T23:51:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Did O’Malley mention that he’s not a Washington insider? > [@foolsguinea](#): > > No No? Mine was a rhetorical question. Not sure how you could be watching this stuff without knowing that O’Malley is running as the outsider. From O’Malley’s remarks during the debate: > [@](#): > > Our economy – people are working harder and being left behind. You want to know why things don’t get done in Washington? Because for the last 24 hours, with those issues being so urgent to people as they tune in tonight, wondering how they’re even be able to buy presents for their kids. > > Instead, we’re listening to the bickering back and forth. Maybe that is normal politics in Washington, but that is not the politics of higher purpose that people expect from our party. > > \ > > But you know what we did in Maryland? We overcame the NRA’s objections. We overcame all of the crowds that were coming down there. > > We did our own rallies. And at least if we enact these laws in a prospective way, we can address a major vulnerability in our country. ISIL videos, ISIL training videos are telling lone wolves the easiest way to buy a combat assault weapon in America is at a gun show. > > And it’s because of the flip-flopping, political approach of Washington that both of my two colleagues on this stage have represented there for the last forty years. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/69 "2015-12-21T00:01:59Z")
Hillary has only been a Washington insider for 22 years. Bernie Sanders has been in Washington 24 years, though as a Socialist and then an Independent, I don’t know how much of an insider he is. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/70 "2015-12-21T01:16:43Z")
Yeah, it really doesn’t make sense to try to claim the “Washington outsider” title when you’re running against a guy who doesn’t even count himself a member of either party. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/71 "2015-12-21T01:33:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yeah, it really doesn’t make sense to try to claim the “Washington outsider” title when you’re running against a guy who doesn’t even count himself a member of either party. And maybe that’s why he’s polling so low. 🙂 But whether it makes sense or not is a different matter from whether he’s doing it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Rather\_a\_Vicious\_Gentleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/919ad9/32.png) [@Rather\_a\_Vicious\_Gentleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rather_a_Vicious_Gentleman)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/72 "2015-12-21T01:45:17Z")
At one point Clinton couldn’t even be arsed to be on stage, just walks in smuglike same way she’s gonna walk into the presidency ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/73 "2015-12-21T02:06:37Z")
As she said in a similar situation in a previous debate, “It takes longer for us”. Maybe they need longer commercial breaks, or a restroom closer to the stage, next time. ---
**Author:** ![Rather\_a\_Vicious\_Gentleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/919ad9/32.png) [@Rather\_a\_Vicious\_Gentleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rather_a_Vicious_Gentleman)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/74 "2015-12-21T02:28:41Z")
'Need more honesty in politics! “SORRY FOLKS I HAD TO TAKE A SHIT. AM I POTUS YET?” ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/75 "2015-12-21T02:36:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No? Mine was a rhetorical question. Not sure how you could be watching this stuff without knowing that O’Malley is running as the outsider. I didn’t notice. I did notice the repeated claims that they’ve already done in Maryland the sort of things the other two were proposing. It seemed like he was emphasizing executive experience, not “outsiderness.” That was my point. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/76 "2015-12-21T02:48:30Z")
> [@Rather\_a\_Vicious\_Gentleman](#): > > At one point Clinton couldn’t even be arsed to be on stage, just walks in smuglike same way she’s gonna walk into the presidency Lines to the Ladies room are longer. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/77 "2015-12-21T03:07:29Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I didn’t notice. I did notice the repeated claims that they’ve already done in Maryland the sort of things the other two were proposing. It seemed like he was emphasizing executive experience, not “outsiderness.” That was my point. I didn’t mean to imply that “outsider” was the only strategy he was employing. And there is a large overlap between “Governor of State X” and “Washington outsider”. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/78 "2015-12-21T09:50:12Z")
O’Malley is Democratic John Kasich-and about as relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/79 "2015-12-21T18:58:22Z")
O’Malley was reasonably strong when he was making actual arguments for ideas. But his game of talking over the moderators in a pathetic attempt for more time, and rehearsed attacks that had nothing to do with what actually just happened (\*) came off as desperate and weak. He’s not going to win. He must know that. Use this opportunity to raise his star a bit. Quit whining, quit attacking, and talk about what matters to you. (\*) [Slate](http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/12/19/bernie_sanders_and_hillary_clinton_play_nice_on_data_breach.html) rightly called out O’Malley’s line about “Instead, we’re listening to the bickering back and forth” right after Clinton and Sanders were agreeing vehemently and not bickering at all about the DNC voter data leak “scandal.” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788/80 "2015-12-21T19:24:30Z")
Sanders: “We screwed up, I apologize, let’s move on to the issues that matter.” Clinton: “I appreciate that, I agree that we need to concentrate on the issues.” O’Malley: “Waaaaah! Those two are bickering!” Jesus, Martin. You aren’t going to win, you don’t deserve to be on that stage, you’re running for veep, shut the hell up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/3rd-democratic-debate-12-19-15/740788.md?page=5)