# 4-in-5 Oklahoma City students can’t read clocks **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 15, 2017, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216 "2017-03-15T03:30:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216/41 "2017-03-15T20:47:15Z")
Who here knows how to start a crank engine car? Would you remember to grip the crank handle with your thumb wrapped below, with your fingers, instead of the more natural grip with the thumb opposing the fingers? You would of course know to set the brake first, make sure the gear is neutral, and then retard the spark, right? Don’t get me wrong – I am sad to see analog clocks retreat from the landscape. But I’m not so sure they are an essential life skill. Now, let’s discuss making flour from wheat, and how to butcher a hog. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216/42 "2017-03-15T23:06:00Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Digital clocks are clocks. I suspect aceplace57 is one of those people who thinks that flat screen TVs aren’t TVs and cell phones aren’t phones and laptops aren’t computers (and that they are all luxuries). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2017, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216/43 "2017-03-15T23:24:42Z")
> [@PatriotGrrrl](#): > > I suspect aceplace57 is one of those people who thinks that flat screen TVs aren’t TVs and cell phones aren’t phones and laptops aren’t computers (and that they are all luxuries). They are all luxuries, to the extent that “luxury,” and “absolutely necessary for survival,” are antonyms. They are perhaps not extravagances. Certainly if someone proposed a bill that any adult lacking a laptop, cell phone, and flat screen TVs would be provided each at taxpayer expense, I’d oppose such a scheme. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216/44 "2017-03-16T00:16:13Z")
We found a [LED Word Clock](https://www.amazon.com/LED-Word-Clock-Displays-Time/dp/B00JPNWR3G) at a Goodwill (for $5.00; Amazon has it listed at $75). It displays the time as “IT IS FIVE MINUTES TO SEVEN” or “IT IS HALF PAST EIGHT” at five-minute increments. Our six-year old granddaughter just noticed it and is now able to read the words, which I think is helping her tell time, seeing it as words instead of the digital form. She still needs help with analog clocks though. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216/45 "2017-03-16T00:44:33Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Theory: Analog clocks make you think of time differently. People who are familiar with analog clocks can _visualize_ amounts of time, in a way that people who only know digital clocks can’t; and they’ve been trained to think of time as continuous, rather than discrete. > > They also help kids understand continuous quantities in general, and why rounding and “closeness” work the way they do, since they make it far more natural to refer to a time like 6:45 as “15 till 7” or “a quarter to 7,” and make it obvious why such a time is nearer to 7:00 than to 6:00. > > That’s my theory, anyway; I don’t know how much water it holds. Couldn’t agree more. For the same reason that paper maps give a genuine feeling of visualizing distance whereas a GPS device of auditory Google Maps navigation gives you exactly zero context. **Gatopescado** , I don’t understand what your post means. What is " 9:02" ? ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216/46 "2017-03-16T00:51:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > They are all luxuries, to the extent that “luxury,” and “absolutely necessary for survival,” are antonyms. They are perhaps not extravagances. > > Certainly if someone proposed a bill that any adult lacking a laptop, cell phone, and flat screen TVs would be provided each at taxpayer expense, I’d oppose such a scheme. But you would approve of a bill stating that any adult lacking food, clean water, housing or adequate healthcare be provided those things at taxpayer expense? ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216/47 "2017-03-16T01:09:54Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Don’t pilots prefer analog gages to digital ones?? I flew with nothing but analog (“steam gauges” in pilot lingo) for years, and gradually moved into glass cockpits. The light jet I fly now is mostly glass, with just a few round gauges associated with the electrical and pressurization systems. As to what I prefer… I’d say the glass, when it comes to jets. More of a learning curve on using it, but once you’re used to glass displays there’s more information in less time than it would take to scan analog gauges. But I still enjoy flying with round dials in older, piston planes. Interestingly, traffic is still called out with reference to clock position (I can’t think of a better way), so in that sense you could say I use both in the cockpit. Which brings me to my point on analog vs. digital clocks: It depends on the purpose. In today’s world it seems a lot of people get by just fine with digital, and rarely encounter analog clocks. I think if a real need were to develop. people would learn to read round clocks just fine. I see this issue, such as it is, as similar to cursive writing. There are a few people I know who are absolutely livid that some schools are no longer teaching cursive. I’ve asked why and the best answer I can get from them is, “But… but… What if they want to read the Constitution!!!” _sigh_ Pretty sure they have that in books now. But if a person did have the need to view and decode the script, I’m confident they could train themselves to do so without much trouble. To say nothing of the fact that, last I looked, there isn’t any evidence that writing cursive is helpful to learning. Before I flew planes I was a teacher, and I have to say I’m weary of the general public getting up in arms about how schools do, or do not, teach relatively minor things like cursive or clock reading. Yes, yes, we’re all taxpayers and therefore deserve a say - fine. But this is not a big deal, and I’m fine with kids in Oklahoma sticking to digital clocks. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216/48 "2017-03-16T02:13:41Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > They all know 9:02. > > ☹ > [@aceplace57](#): > > I agree, any Oklahoma kid should know April 19 1995. > [@Cartooniverse](#): > > **Gatopescado** , I don’t understand what your post means. What is " 9:02" ? The date and time of the OK City bombing by Timothy McVeigh. Probably referenced because the article is set in OK City. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216/49 "2017-03-16T02:39:34Z")
I probably have taught more kids to read “clock time,” both analog and digital, than just about any of the rest of you 🙂 [I taught primary school for many years, where clock reading has traditionally been a significant part of the math curriculum, and now work part-time as an elementary math specialist.] So, a few thoughts from someone what’s been in the trenches. –My school has an analog clock in basically every classroom. Other schools I’ve been in (supervising student teachers, giving workshops, etc.) also have analog clocks in basically every classroom. These are just about the only analog clocks kids will see in public spaces: the time-and-temperature signs along the roads are all digital, the clock at our local ballpark is digital, etc. Of course time displays in cars and on phones tend to be digital, and it seems that more and more people who wear watches these days are wearing digital watches. I know I don’t have a single analog clock anywhere in my house, and I think the same is true for a lot of the kids I teach. --There is something kind of strange about teaching analog clocks in school, when school is just about the only place kids will ever experience them. –Analog clocks do take some getting used to. One issue is that there’s a developmental thing going on, where kids have to look at the numbers when they are referencing the hour and the numbers-times-five when they are referencing the minute, and that is difficult. In my experience a lot of kids can’t really make sense of this (and read the hands consistently) till the middle or end of second grade. Even then it can take a fair amount of practice to get them used to the process. –Digital clock reading is easy, but does lack context. I have never seen a child think of 5:57 (since this was an example given) as 5:00 in “digital world”; the real issue, I think, is that it isn’t at all obvious that 5:57 is actually “almost 6:00.” That’s the big challenge of teaching kids to read/understand digital clocks. Since the “magic number” [the base, essentially] is 60, and kids are used to 100, seeing 5:57 does not automatically ping their round-up meter the way seeing the number 597 would (oh, it’s almost 600). –Related to this is that _as long as we continue to use_ expressions like “quarter after five” and “ten to three,” digital clocks don’t help kids understand the meaning. [I keep expecting these locutions to go out of style. So far they don’t seem to be. i’M not sure why.] –Getting back to a time like 5:55, kids will certainly see that in analog clock world this is “almost 6 o’clock.” The trouble comes when they are asked to write the time shown on the clock: huge numbers of 2nd graders will write “6:55.” It’s difficult to see that the hand is just before the six, and hard to remember that this means the time is not quite six. It can take a lot of, um, time to help kids get this straight. –Analog clock reading does indeed have a lot of mathematics in it. You have to be able to count by fives, count by fives and ones, think in terms of fractions, etc. As long as we continue to teach analog clocks, that’s a side benefit. Of course there are many other ways to teach these concepts, which may be a better use of limited resources. –Since someone mentioned teaching fractions through analog time; the series we are using right now is very big on that, but IMHO it confuses more kids than it helps. (One sample idea is that you can model 1/3 by shading 12 to 4, then model 1/4 by shading 4 to 7, then see that 1/3 + 1/4 = 7/12. The idea seems reasonable but as I say it doesn’t seem very effective in practice.) For me, the bottom line is that teaching analog clock skills takes a big chunk of time and energy relative to its value. I think that time and energy can be spent more effectively on other topics. If I were in charge of the standards (I am not, alas), and of schools, I would replace all school analog clocks with digital versions, and drop the teaching of analog time. I’d include it only in the way that Roman numerals are sometimes included–as a kind of curiosity, useful for illustrating some specific ideas and for showing how things used to be, but not worth much beyond that. You can probably guess how I feel about cursive… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216/50 "2017-03-16T02:42:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > They are all luxuries, to the extent that “luxury,” and “absolutely necessary for survival,” are antonyms. They are perhaps not extravagances. > > Certainly if someone proposed a bill that any adult lacking a laptop, cell phone, and flat screen TVs would be provided each at taxpayer expense, I’d oppose such a scheme. I think you missed my point. This has nothing to do with prices or who is paying for anything and I have no idea why you’re bringing that into it. I meant that some people think a flat screen TV is somehow a luxury but a CRT TV is not (can you even buy a CRT TV anymore?), or a cell phone is a luxury but a landline is not (seriously, how many average people do you know who don’t have a cell phone?) or a laptop is a luxury when a desktop is not (many people own a laptop even though they rarely move it). But some people are living in the past when a cell phone or a flat screen TV or a laptop were new and exotic compared to the old fashioned equivalents. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216/51 "2017-03-16T04:29:05Z")
Wait… > [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > and it seems that more and more people who wear watches these days are wearing digital watches. … is this 1980? I was under the impression that with most people currently transferring the primary personal timepiece function to the cell/smartphone, actual watch-wearers were largely going analog for style considerations(\*). Heck, even a lot of the smartwatches I see are configured with a dial display at idle. Mistaken impression? Bubble? … (\* I like the philosophical POV about analog clock/watchfaces – digital shows you this instant; analog shows motion within a cyclical continuum. That is going to keep me wearing actual watches, in analog. Oh, I’ll have you, Omega Speedmaster Professional, some day I will…) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216/52 "2017-03-16T05:33:21Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Wait… > > … is this 1980? Yeah, the only people I know who wear watches wear nice, stylish analogue watches, not digital ones. Oh, well, I guess there’s that Apple Watch, but I actually don’t know anyone who uses one (plus it seems the analogue face is a common one to use on that, if the marketing pictures are to be believed.) ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216/53 "2017-03-16T05:50:11Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Is there such a thing as radial dyslexia? Struggling with analog clocks is common with dyscalculia. My 27 year old daughter still has to count with her fingers in the air studying on it. She also can’t remember a phone number to save her life and gets turned around coming home from work sometimes. She has a really bad sense of direction. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216/54 "2017-03-16T10:55:43Z")
Can’t they just use their cell phone to call and ask what time it is? ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216/55 "2017-03-16T13:07:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Who here knows how to start a crank engine car? > > I am sad to see analog clocks retreat… But I’m not so sure they are an essential life skill. You will never drive a car that needs to be cranked. You will see lots of analog clocks. You may find one on the wall when you , say, take a professional examination like the bar exam, and no cell phones are allowed. Or in an office ,when you’re waiting impatiently for a big interview. Or in your elementary school classroom when you’re waiting for lunch. It’s not an _essential_ life skill…but it’s an important one. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216/56 "2017-03-16T13:19:00Z")
I doubt if many Oklahomans write bar exams while they are children. If they are not bright enough to have picked up reading a dial clock on their own somewhere along the way, it would be best if they did not become lawyers. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216/57 "2017-03-16T14:45:24Z")
Thanks for your [well-informed and thoughtful reply](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20069830&postcount=49), **Ulf** , with your informed opinion that teaching kids to read analog clocks is more trouble than it’s worth. Still, in my own uninformed opinion, I’d like to see analog clocks stay on the schoolroom walls (perhaps alongside digital clocks) so that kids get used to seeing them, and so that at least kids who are curious, and capable of catching on relatively quickly, have the opportunity to learn how they work. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216/58 "2017-03-16T15:35:25Z")
I don’t think there’s a single analog clock in my daughter’s middle school. They all have laptops. The clock in the office is digital. I don’t recall seeing any clocks where my other daughter goes to college either. I really think we might need to accept that they’re dying out like rotary phones, which also stuck around long after usefulness. ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216/59 "2017-03-16T16:49:11Z")
I’ve got a question about how some people say times that seems to fit here. I know that “quarter to six” is 5:45 and “quarter past six” is 6:15. But I hear some people say “quarter **of** six”. What digital time does that refer to? I don’t hear it often, is it a regional thing? ---
**Author:** ![apollonia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@apollonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apollonia)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216/60 "2017-03-16T16:51:19Z")
I visit lots and lots of schools for my work, everywhere from Grade 1 right through universities, and analog clocks are still in the vast, vast majority. I’ve seen digital displays in common areas, like gyms or cafeterias, but analog clocks are by far more common in the classroom. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4-in-5-oklahoma-city-students-can-t-read-clocks/782216.md?page=4)