# 440Hz VS 432Hz - A sound conspiracy **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 10, 2015, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/440hz-vs-432hz-a-sound-conspiracy/712273 "2015-02-10T01:17:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/440hz-vs-432hz-a-sound-conspiracy/712273/41 "2015-02-11T01:53:02Z")
> [@spyderkill](#): > > There is even the suggestion that 432 tuned music stimulates the right brain, responsible for our most desirable human traits. > [@Trinopus](#): > > So, yeah, the idea of “right brain creativity” was certainly exaggerated into a load of New Age woo, but the idea of brain hemisphere localization of some faculties isn’t totally hogwash. The statement in the OP is totally hogwash, for more than one reason. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/440hz-vs-432hz-a-sound-conspiracy/712273/42 "2015-02-11T03:04:05Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Whats happens when a bunch of trendy, but oh so hip musicians tuned to 432 play with a piano? Do they want to spend hundreds of bucks getting the piano specially tuned based on 432? They just wait for a few months, and the piano’s 440 will slip to 432. Works even better if you make the room temp fluctuate wildly while you wait. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/440hz-vs-432hz-a-sound-conspiracy/712273/43 "2015-02-11T04:11:43Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > It costs the same to tune a piano to A4 = 432 Hz as it does to tune it to 440 Hz. Well, yes, but if the piano was at 440, it may be more expensive to bring it to 432 than if it you were just tuning it while it was already there. It’s generally harder (and thus more expensive) to raise pitch than to lower it, but changing pitch is not as simple as just tuning. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/440hz-vs-432hz-a-sound-conspiracy/712273/44 "2015-02-11T12:30:59Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > …changing pitch is not as simple as just tuning. ??? A half-step is about 37 Hz in that octave, roughly. That means we’re looking at a down-tuning of between 1/4 and 1/5 of a half-step. What would be difficult about that on a piano? I could probably do it in 30 minutes with an electronic tuner…probably less, if I didn’t have to tune the upper two octaves, which are rarely used and use more strings per note, therefore taking longer to tune. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/440hz-vs-432hz-a-sound-conspiracy/712273/45 "2015-02-11T15:27:50Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > Well, yes, but if the piano was at 440, it may be more expensive to bring it to 432 than if it you were just tuning it while it was already there. It’s generally harder (and thus more expensive) to raise pitch than to lower it, but changing pitch is not as simple as just tuning. It’s only the difference between an overhaul and regular maintenance. Once a piano is tuned to A4 = 432, moving it back to 440 would be like an overhaul. Maintaining it at 432 is no more expensive than maintaining it at 440. There’s nothing inherently more difficult about maintaining a piano at 432 than 440. If you go too far from how the piano is designed, in terms of tension on the strings, you can have some problems. But 432 is not far enough away to be that big of a deal. I set up some quarter-tuned pianos before, and it was no big deal at all, the tuner told me, as long as you lower one of them. Raising the pitch from 440 could raise the problem of string tension: the immediate potential issue is that the string won’t stay tuned at that tension for as long as they would at 440. I am not a professional piano tuner. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/440hz-vs-432hz-a-sound-conspiracy/712273/46 "2015-02-11T15:37:21Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > ??? > > A half-step is about 37 Hz in that octave, roughly. That means we’re looking at a down-tuning of between 1/4 and 1/5 of a half-step. What would be difficult about that on a piano? I could probably do it in 30 minutes with an electronic tuner…probably less, if I didn’t have to tune the upper two octaves, which are rarely used and use more strings per note, therefore taking longer to tune. If the piano were originally in 440, you have to drop the pitch of the entire thing, and then tune it. It’s a two step process instead of a one step process. Plus, the piano is designed to be at 440, which means there is a compromise of quality and stability at other pitches, both in the strings and the soundboard. Also, large changes of tension in one string compromises the tension of other strings, changing their tuning as you adjust other strings (the relatively small tension changes of a standard tuning don’t do this). Changes of pitch generally require a follow up to re-tune as the instrument settles into it. Also, I’m assuming a reputable tuner/technician who is not going to half-ass it and not tune the upper two octaves just to make it easier. Maybe I’ve been spoiled by competence. Granted, it’s a lot easier to drop it a fraction of a step than an entire half step, but it’s still not as straightforward as a simple tuning. ETA: **Knorf** I’m assuming a piano maintained at 440. If it’s already at 432 it’s not a problem at all. And of course not nearly as ,much of a problem as a large pitch change. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/440hz-vs-432hz-a-sound-conspiracy/712273/47 "2015-02-11T15:50:26Z")
Apropos of nothing, I just tested the pitch of my piano that hasn’t been tuned in about 8 years and the attack is coming in at 439Hz which decays to 437. It’s pretty much a piece of crap, but it sure holds a pitch! (It’s not even that out of tune.) ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/440hz-vs-432hz-a-sound-conspiracy/712273/48 "2015-02-11T16:23:49Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > ETA: **Knorf** I’m assuming a piano maintained at 440. If it’s already at 432 it’s not a problem at all. And of course not nearly as ,much of a problem as a large pitch change. Yes, we’re in agreement, just coming at it from different assumptions. > [@fachverwirrt](#): > > Apropos of nothing, I just tested the pitch of my piano that hasn’t been tuned in about 8 years and the attack is coming in at 439Hz which decays to 437. > > It’s pretty much a piece of crap, but it sure holds a pitch! (It’s not even that out of tune.) Nice! My bassoon (and the reeds I make) seem happy at just under 440. 439 would be great! Alas, orchestras I play in always tune to 440 and then go up from there, often 442 once everyone is in the heat of the moment. I can do that, too, but my setup doesn’t love it. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/440hz-vs-432hz-a-sound-conspiracy/712273/49 "2015-02-11T16:29:12Z")
Some of us suffer from hearing loss. Oh woe is me! I will never again experience the “frequency of life”! Edit: Gah! I went to Youtube. I can hear 440. NVM. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/440hz-vs-432hz-a-sound-conspiracy/712273.md?page=2)