# 49% vs. 41% in favour of Muslim ban **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 31, 2017, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708 "2017-01-31T22:54:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708/21 "2017-02-01T00:36:43Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > I have to travel to the US for work very soon, something that had been scheduled before the election. This will be my last visit in probably a long time. I am also checking legal ways for me to avoid paying taxes in the US, something I didn’t even begrudge during the Bush years. Good luck y’all. It has created a lot of uncertainty. And one thing that business hates is uncertainty. Now, nobody knows what kind of ban will come down the pipeline while they are in the air flying to the US. Nobody knows what kind of rule about business practices might suddenly materialize overnight with no warning or consultation. It’s just a fucking gong-show. I am going to be pressing my elected representatives to start strongly working on trade agreements with China, the EU, other pacific counties and Britain. We need to move our economy away from the US as fast as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708/22 "2017-02-01T00:40:32Z")
I don’t trust those numbers in the slightest. It’s the first poll taken, not an amalgamation of polls. And it’s on the freaking internet! Furthermore, I question the sampling, especially considering that 60% of the states voted for Trump. (How is it that a ‘representative’ sampling included more Republicans than Democrats?) ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708/23 "2017-02-01T01:30:55Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Phrasing matters. > [ul][li]“Do you agree with the President of the United States,” is different from, “Do you agree with New York career confidence artist Donald Trump?”[/li][/ul] Not really. Support for a “Muslim ban” was at 48% back in mid-2016 as well (including from about a third of people who voted Obama in 2012). > **[Majority of Americans Now Support Donald Trump’s Proposed Muslim Ban, Poll Shows](https://theintercept.com/2016/03/30/majority-of-americans-now-support-trumps-proposed-muslim-ban-poll-shows/)** > > Some 51 percent of Americans support banning non-citizen Muslims from coming to the U.S. That’s up from 45 percent in December. > **[Donald Trump Backs Off Muslim Ban, But It’s Already Way More Popular Than He Is](https://theintercept.com/2016/07/07/donald-trump-backs-off-muslim-ban-but-its-already-way-more-popular-than-he-is/)** > > An idea that would have been considered fringe in years past has been elevated to the mainstream and now has a life of its own. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708/24 "2017-02-01T01:53:56Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Kind of weird really as surely the ban is illegal. Why is that weird? It’s not hard to find things people support that are illegal. Like marijuana. > [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Does make the Dope look like a straight up echo chamber though. Depends on how you want to parse that accusation, but I don’t think most here would find the results too surprising. The American public has been skittish about Muslims for many years, even before 9/11, and Trump won a great amount of public support by promising immigration restrictions against Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708/25 "2017-02-01T01:58:05Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Kind of weird really as surely the ban is illegal. People want the government to do illegal stuff all the time, but what makes you think this is illegal? I can’t imagine a court overturning it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708/26 "2017-02-01T01:59:47Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > I have to travel to the US for work very soon, something that had been scheduled before the election. This will be my last visit in probably a long time. I am also checking legal ways for me to avoid paying taxes in the US, something I didn’t even begrudge during the Bush years. Good luck y’all. None of my damn business, but I like you, so that makes it my business. Your post doesn’t make it clear, are you being prevented from returning or would prefer not? And if the first, is there an address or something where a torrent of testimonials to your character, intelligence, and wholesome crunchy goodness might sway an opinion? You have friends, exploit them, its why we’re here. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708/27 "2017-02-01T02:28:03Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Phrasing matters. > [ul][li]“Do you agree with the President of the United States,” is different from, “Do you agree with New York career confidence artist Donald Trump?”[/li][li]An unfortunate number of North Americans think of Muslims as “al Qaeda and ISIS,” not as “Dr. Khan and the guys at the Mediterranean restaurant.”[/li][li]If you phrased it as, “defying the free exercise of religion,” or, “violating the First Amendment,” you’d get different results.[/li][/ul] Don’t be too sure. When polled about specifics of the Bill of Rights (i.e. “freedom of assembly” or “freedom of religion” without referencing amendment numbers) an alarming number of Americans don’t support them. Except guns, of course. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708/28 "2017-02-01T02:35:26Z")
> [@Trancephalic](#): > > Judaism isn’t a race either, right? Or was it designated as one in the aftermath of the Holocaust? Sort of a sidelight to the main discussion here: But here’s one discussion of that question: [https://www.quora.com/Are-Jewish-people-part-of-an-ethnicity-a-race-a-religion-or-all-of-the-above](https://www.quora.com/Are-Jewish-people-part-of-an-ethnicity-a-race-a-religion-or-all-of-the-above) I consider myself to be Jewish, as that is my ethnicity and my culture, but I am also atheist. So, I would not say Judaism is my religion. And, in particular, in reference to the Holocaust: It was a genocide against people of a certain ethnicity, not religion. In particular, it was very different from religious persecution: Renouncing the religion (and/or embracing some alternate religion) did not spare you from the death camps. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708/29 "2017-02-01T02:38:35Z")
I am willing to believe that such a ban may have popular support (or, that it is at least a pretty close split). However, the nice thing about our country is that we have a Constitution that protects the rights of minorities against the tyranny of the majority. And, there is a good reason why we do: All because we elected a bigot as our president (not by a majority…but whatever) does not mean that he can perpetrate his bigotry on the nation. [Oh, and I guess using the term “bigotry” rather than “racism” is preferable in that it gets around the question of whether this or that is a “race”. Bigotry is a more expansive term than racism, more closely suited to prejudice against Muslims, for example.] ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708/30 "2017-02-01T02:44:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > None of my damn business, but I like you, so that makes it my business. Your post doesn’t make it clear, are you being prevented from returning or would prefer not? IAN **Mighty\_Girl** and cannot speak for her, but my impression from her post was that she cannot wait to get shut of us (at least as long as President Trump is wielding the scepter), and I can’t say that I blame her. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708/31 "2017-02-01T03:33:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > None of my damn business, but I like you, so that makes it my business. Your post doesn’t make it clear, are you being prevented from returning or would prefer not? > > And if the first, is there an address or something where a torrent of testimonials to your character, intelligence, and wholesome crunchy goodness might sway an opinion? > > You have friends, exploit them, its why we’re here. No, at this very moment I am not affected by their newest bestest idea, and I am not, nor have I ever been a Muslim. However, I don’t feel welcome in the country to which I have strong ties to, and to which I have paid taxes for most of my working career because the very stability and strong legal framework that is now at risk have allowed me to make a living for all those years. I really love you guys, but few people feel welcome at your party right now, even non-Muslims. And thanks for the offer. Much appreciated, it may come handy if they find out what I really think of your president. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708/32 "2017-02-01T03:51:29Z")
For those of you concerned with traveling to the US in the current climate, keep in mind that unless you are visiting small town rural America, most people you encounter here will feel the same way as you do. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708/33 "2017-02-01T03:59:43Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > For those of you concerned with traveling to the US in the current climate, keep in mind that unless you are visiting small town rural America, most people you encounter here will feel the same way as you do. My personal suggestion would be to stop being so damn dramatic. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708/34 "2017-02-01T04:12:03Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > My personal suggestion would be to stop being so damn dramatic. Maybe you should try telling that to the Administration that melodramatically executed an immediate and very ill-conceived ban that suddenly revoked the entry permission of many people while they were actually in transit, as well as seriously disrupting the lives of thousands of others who had already obtained permission to come here, to inflict as much chaos and attention-getting turmoil as possible. If Trump wanted to temporarily halt issuing visas in order to review vetting procedures, as other administrations have done before, he could have done it without making the US as a whole look clueless and unreliable by arbitrarily invalidating _visas that we already issued_. This whole business was a shameful display of abuse of power just so the President could swagger about his “toughness” and “decisiveness” in messing up other people’s lives without actually accomplishing anything for our safety. He’s the one who needs to stop being so damn dramatic. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708/35 "2017-02-01T04:16:25Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > My personal suggestion would be to stop being so damn dramatic. Mine would be to listen to the rest of the world, which doesn’t trust Trump any more than I do. Oh, btw, what do you think the Trump administration’s intent was here? TO BE DRAMATIC. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708/36 "2017-02-01T05:11:12Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Maybe you should try telling that to the Administration that melodramatically executed an immediate and very ill-conceived ban that suddenly revoked the entry permission of many people while they were actually in transit, as well as seriously disrupting the lives of thousands of others who had already obtained permission to come here, to inflict as much chaos and attention-getting turmoil as possible. > > If Trump wanted to temporarily halt issuing visas in order to review vetting procedures, as other administrations have done before, he could have done it without making the US as a whole look clueless and unreliable by arbitrarily invalidating _visas that we already issued_. > > This whole business was a shameful display of abuse of power just so the President could swagger about his “toughness” and “decisiveness” in messing up other people’s lives without actually accomplishing anything for our safety. He’s the one who needs to stop being so damn dramatic. Yes, yes, exactly this. It’s not melodramatic, when we have the evidence of a complete fuck-up shit show right in front of us. People with VALID VISAs in hand were told at the border “ha ha, The United States Government will not honour our word… tough shit” And thanks for the thoughts\*\* Sterling Archer\*\* Yes, i (and many others) have excellent professional and personal contacts, who also despise the totalitarian dictator who now inhabits the white house. But the problem is, those good friends won’t be much help if I’m stuck in the USA when an insane order comes down the pipeline that orders me detained. All it would take would be a premier of a province, or a cabinet minister to say some thing mean about Trump, and BANG! Orders come down to detain any Canadians in the country, and make things “highly unpleasant for them.” No, this is not being melodramatic. You have a melagomaniac madman in the Whitehouse who is currently wielding absolute power. Nobody knows what crazy shit he might pull next. THAT’S THE WHOLE PROBLEM. And THAT is why my colleagues are cancelling business trips, conferences, etc. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708/37 "2017-02-01T06:22:12Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > I don’t trust those numbers in the slightest. It’s the first poll taken, not an amalgamation of polls. And it’s on the freaking internet! Furthermore, I question the sampling, especially considering that 60% of the states voted for Trump. (How is it that a ‘representative’ sampling included more Republicans than Democrats?) Nate Silver rates IPSOS at A- > **[Pollster Ratings](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/)** > > FiveThirtyEight’s pollster ratings are calculated by analyzing the historical accuracy and methodology of each firm’s polls. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708/38 "2017-02-01T06:36:02Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Nate Silver rates IPSOS at A- > > [https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/) And that invalidates my concerns with the methodology? Uh, yeah, nice try. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708/39 "2017-02-01T07:05:17Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > And that invalidates my concerns with the methodology? Uh, yeah, nice try. I think most people would trust Nate Silver’s opinion of their methodology, or at least their results, over your handwaving “concerns”. So yes, it invalidates your concerns to a degree. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708/40 "2017-02-01T07:06:05Z")
I’m surprised the number of people who think what is going on is a ‘ban’, or who otherwise oppose it, is as high as 41%. I imagine most of this number consists of people under the age of 25 who’ve been successfully brainwashed against reality by their schooling. The degreed among them may not have the desired work ethic or sufficient critical thinking, writing or grammar skills to be of any real value in the jobs marketplace, but they certainly know enough to oppose Republicans in every way possible because they’re, well, _Republicans_! It is absolute lunacy to take the position that we should just throw open our doors willy-nilly to any and every Muslim who seeks to enter the country because to do otherwise is racism or religious discrimination. Nobody is being banned, they’re merely being held back a few months for very sensible reasons. And nobody is being discriminated against because of their religion (would that the left get so het up about Christianity as it does about every other religion in the world, even while simultaneously and schizophrenically making fun of religion in the main and people’s ‘invisible friend in the sky’ :rolleyes:). They’re being vetted for the simple and common sense reason that terrorists who have designs on killing as many American citizens as they can are attempting to smuggle themselves in disguised as immigrants who attempting to flee the very terrorism they’re intent on creating, and the common sense people among us who don’t adhere to dogma for its own sake easily recognize this. I’m just surprised to learn that such a large percentage of the population is apparently logic and common sense challenged. I suppose I shouldn’t be, given all that’s been going on in this country lately, but still I am. Go figure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/49-vs-41-in-favour-of-muslim-ban/778708.md?page=3)