# 4th of July or July 4th? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 5, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4th-of-july-or-july-4th/186427 "2003-07-05T19:46:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![zia\_nova](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/bc79bd/32.png) [@zia\_nova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zia_nova)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4th-of-july-or-july-4th/186427/1 "2003-07-05T19:46:44Z")
As I was out shopping yesterday I had a thought. Don’t worry, I was okay after the shock wore off 😉 On tv and films and things, I’ve almost always (if not always) heard 4th July pronounced “the 4th of July” by Americans. Which kind of struck me as a little weird since usually they’d say a date as “month/day”. Anyway, I was wondering about this and all I got was a headache. So I thought I’d see if anyone else has a clue about this. Why is 4th July said differently than other dates? Can anyone help? ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4th-of-july-or-july-4th/186427/2 "2003-07-05T20:00:55Z")
Just a WAG: it’s been used before in the English language for special days of note, such as the “Ides of March”, and > [@](#): > > Remember, remember, the fifth of November, > Gunpowder, treason and plot. I guess it just sets the date aside as something unique. Beside which, it goes better that way in lyrics. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Matchka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Matchka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Matchka)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4th-of-july-or-july-4th/186427/3 "2003-07-05T22:16:37Z")
Dang, never really took note of it before. I think Ice Wolf is pretty much right though. I think we all know the holiday is technically called “Independence Day” but if you call it anything other than “The 4th of July” you could be seen as stuffy. I could make some fun WAGs about why that is. I also suppose “4th of July” dominates 'cause it focuses on a day of celebration of liberty as opposed to breaking away from an oppressive regime(Independence). For instance, we don’t bash the English on this day, we party because we _can._ 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![zia\_nova](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/bc79bd/32.png) [@zia\_nova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zia_nova)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4th-of-july-or-july-4th/186427/4 "2003-07-05T22:36:02Z")
Thanks for posting folks. I hate to hijack my own thread but… I’m gonna do it anyway. Does anyone know why/when the Americans started to say dates as “month/day”? Or is it the English who have changed around? ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4th-of-july-or-july-4th/186427/5 "2003-07-05T23:01:43Z")
Don’t know, but I see there are [ISO formats in the offing](http://www.uic.edu/depts/accc/newsletter/adn21/datefmt.html) that would have Americans, Brits and us Commonwealth types all changing over to yyyy-mm-dd style. It’s enough to spark off another revolution, eh, what? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4th-of-july-or-july-4th/186427/6 "2003-07-05T23:42:22Z")
I say this every year, so bear with me… Don’t go fourth on the 4th with a fifth, or you might not go fourth on thr fifth. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/4th-of-july-or-july-4th/186427/7 "2003-07-06T07:20:07Z")
[Related thread from today.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=195544)