# $5.9 billion per month **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 17, 2006, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946 "2006-02-17T14:50:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946/21 "2006-02-17T16:46:20Z")
Just to give people a little feeling of the difference between a million and a billion. A million seconds is 11.5 days. A billion seconds is 32 years. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946/22 "2006-02-17T16:49:22Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > Most of you may or may not agree with the initial reasons to invade (whatever they may be), but the fact of the matter is that _we’re here_, and we have to clean up. From your perspective, do you see an end to this? When do you estimate pulling out? ---
**Author:** ![Gladstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90db22/32.png) [@Gladstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gladstone)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946/23 "2006-02-17T17:28:44Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > We’re involved, and this is the price of the aftermath. Don’t hate the cost of cleaning up after the storm, hate the hurricane. I don’t think the ire is directed at the cost per se, but the lack of planning before, during, and after the “hurricane” that led to this enormous cost. Not to mention the oft-quoted pre-war cost estimate not being in the same universe as the bill we’re getting today (i.e. “the oil will pay for reconstruction, don’t worry so much”). Your analogy falls down in the sense that a hurricane is a natural disaster, taking place regardless of whether we do anything to prepare for it or not, and a war is a man-made disaster, in this case taking place in the time and manner of the Bush administration’s choosing. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946/24 "2006-02-17T17:40:33Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > We’re involved, and this is the price of the aftermath. Don’t hate the cost of cleaning up after the storm, hate the hurricane. This war is more like a used car than a hurricane. The salesperson told us it would run for 200,000 miles, get 40 mpg and our monthly payment would be $200/month. Instead, the monthly payment is $37,000, the doors fall off if you go faster than 15 mph and the whole thing catches on fire whenever you turn on the radio or hit the brakes. Worst of all, the salesperson stops by our house every few days to tell us what a great deal we got. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946/25 "2006-02-17T17:43:58Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Anyone know how much of that bill would’ve been paid out anyway through salary, equipment maintenance, procurement etc.? The US Department of Defence has budget of about $400 billion for 2006. > [@usar\_jag](#): > > While the cost of the war is outrageous, it’s roughly only 4% of the FY07 budget, if that’s any indication of how massively large our government is… War costs for Iraq are deliberately not part of the the budget, be it the current FY06 budget or the projected FY07 budget. War costs are supplemental appropriations. > [@](#): > > About $323 billion has been spent since the Sept. 11 attacks on military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to the Congressional Budget Office. The White House estimate is about $320 billion. Source: [Bloomberg - 16 Feb 2006](http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=aK2DPevaV5ho&refer=top_world_news) ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946/26 "2006-02-17T17:53:04Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > How many of the terrorists you are talking about came from Iraq? Dumbass. Pssst, the OP said wars, dumbass. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946/27 "2006-02-17T17:54:32Z")
I thought everyone was screaming that we were spending too _little_ over there. I heard rumblings about insufficient funds for the troops and such…or was I imagining that? ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946/28 "2006-02-17T18:00:27Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > How many of the terrorists you are talking about came from Iraq? Dumbass. Oh, all dem brown peoples are the same n’ways. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946/29 "2006-02-17T18:04:18Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > I thought everyone was screaming that we were spending too _little_ over there. I heard rumblings about insufficient funds for the troops and such…or was I imagining that? Yeah, imagine spending 5.9 billion dollars a month but not being able to afford body armour for the troops. I’d say that there’s a disconnect somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946/30 "2006-02-17T18:06:56Z")
> [@AFAIKnow](#): > > Pssst, the OP said wars, dumbass. 😉 Er I think **askeptic** was responding to **Clothahump** ’s conflation of the Iraq war with 9/11. The OP was about the Iraq war, but 'hump’s post was about 9/11. If I have misjudged the level of meta-whoosh in your post, please consider this post either retracted, or the next level of whoosh. Or inverse whoosh. Or something. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946/31 "2006-02-17T18:11:10Z")
> [@AFAIKnow](#): > > Pssst, the OP said wars, dumbass. 😉 I guess I am a dumbass, cause I don’t understand your post. I posted in response to humpys attempt to link the 9/11 terrorists to the invasion of Iraq. Color me confused. ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946/32 "2006-02-17T18:12:00Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > I thought everyone was screaming that we were spending too _little_ over there. I heard rumblings about insufficient funds for the troops and such…or was I imagining that? I honestly don’t think anyone is as pissed about the amount of money as they are about the fact that it is going to a war they do not agree with. That money is not breaking the US, it would not have been spent on the cure for cancer otherwise either. I’m not happy with it. They did hint that Iraq would pay for for itself. I do understand that most of the money is probably goin to our military. I just can’t get worked up over it. They could send them over there with regular budget the military gets.I think that would cost more lives, so i say spend the money, and more if they need it. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946/33 "2006-02-17T18:13:25Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > I agree. If I paid taxes this year, I would understand your outrage. > > But I have to live off, and build/fight with those taxes. So please, just keep paying them. I’d hate to run out of beans and bullets while I’m over here. > > Most of you may or may not agree with the initial reasons to invade (whatever they may be), but the fact of the matter is that _we’re here_, and we have to clean up. > > If it’s costing $5.9 billion a month to manage the cleanup efforts in a somewhat planned fashion, it’s well worth it. Consider the problems we would have had if we had pulled out two months after toppling Hussein and left a power vaccum. We would have been spending about as much on the US and UK in cleanup after whatever forces evolved in that vaccum decided to bring it’s own havoc to us. > > We’re involved, and this is the price of the aftermath. Don’t hate the cost of cleaning up after the storm, hate the hurricane. > > Tripler > And that’s my $0.02 to the monthly bill. I support our servicefolk. But whatever trust I might’ve had in the people/system who have deployed them and are spending money on them, is tenuous at best. I recently listened to the January 27th, 2006 podcast of PBS’s “NOW” ([full transcript](http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcriptNOW204_full.html), [podcast archive mp3](http://www.pbs.org/now/rss/media/NOW_01_27_06.mp3)). One of the guests on the show was [Eugene Jarecki](http://imdb.com/name/nm0418659/) who directed and wrote the documentary [Why We Fight](http://imdb.com/title/tt0436971/), which won the Grand Jury prize and Sundance last year. I have not seen the film yet, but found the interview very interesting. > [@](#): > > … > > BRANCACCIO: Welcome to NOW. > > We have two unforgettable voices tonight on what lies at the center of America’s attitude toward war and peace. > > When I use the phrase “the military industrial complex” who do you think coined that? Left-wing Philosopher Noam Chomsky, perhaps? It comes from a card carrying Republican and military hero, President Dwight David Eisenhower. > > Eisenhower’s vivid warning about the danger to democracy of military armaments manufacturers and Congress coming together to guide the country’s destiny forms the frame of a new documentary, called WHY WE FIGHT. The film — which plays out against the backdrop of 9/11 and the war in Iraq just opened in theaters after winning the Grand Jury Prize at Sundance last year. > > … > > BRANCACCIO: The film is suffused with the current war in Iraq. But is this a film about Iraq? > > EUGENE JARECKI: It very much is not, I would say. I mean, our goal was to really put Iraq in a historical context and really take a look at what is it about a number of US wars over the past half century that unites them? Because invariably wars are about different things. > > This war is about many things. The Vietnam War was about a different set of challenges and so forth. But what we did find when we looked at the wars was that all too often the wars seemed to have the same quality that the Iraq War has in that what the public was told when the war began turns out to be very different than the real reasons that were being discussed behind closed doors. And that gap between what the public thinks is happening and what’s really happening I think is at the heart of the concerns of the film WHY WE FIGHT. > > BRANCACCIO: Were we lied to? > > EUGENE JARECKI: Well, I think invariably, and this is sort of gives me hope about people, I think that what you notice is that we have a peace-seeking electorate. All of us, I think at the end of the day, want to see force as a last resort. And what happens is that the powerful all too often see politically expedient reasons for going to war. > > And you can almost see how necessary policy makers feel it is to lie to the public, to go against our better judgment-- to give us reasons like WMDs or the Gulf of Tonkin, equally powerful illusions, to convince us against our better judgment that going to war is necessary. > > … > > CLIP # 3 EISENHOWER’S FAREWELL SPEECH > > "My fellow Americans this evening I come to you with a message of leave-taking and farewell and to share a few final thoughts with you my countrymen. > > We have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. The total influence economic, political and even spiritual is felt in every city, every statehouse, every office of the federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. > > In the counsels of government we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence whether sought or unsought by the military industrial complex, the potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist." > > END CLIP # 3 EISENHOWER’S FAREWELL SPEECH ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946/34 "2006-02-17T18:13:31Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > Oh, all dem brown peoples are the same n’ways. The scary thing is that with posters like clothahump and martin hyde around I can’t be sure you are kidding. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946/35 "2006-02-17T18:22:09Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > I thought everyone was screaming that we were spending too _little_ over there. I heard rumblings about insufficient funds for the troops and such…or was I imagining that? Perhaps they are miffed at the nature of the spending. For example, the Coalition Provisional Authority flat lost $8 billion dollars. Pentagon Audits have found $1 billion in questionable costs and $442 million in unsupported costs on the part of Halliburton. Yet, when it comes to the troops, it was initially decided that spending less than $240 million on body armor was not worth the cost. He has fairly consistently targeted military benefits for cuts, such as hazard pay, medical benefits, and survivors benefits. Surely it cannot be that difficult for you to wrap your mind around the idea that one can be simultaneously concerned about the total amount of spending and the small proportion allocated to the health and well-being of the actual people fighting on our behalf. ---
**Author:** ![mrrealtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@mrrealtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrrealtime)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946/36 "2006-02-17T18:33:37Z")
> [@usar\_jag](#): > > While the cost of the war is outrageous, it’s roughly only 4% of the FY07 budget, if that’s any indication of how massively large our government is… so, if $30 per month is only 4%, then each person is actually paying more like $750 per month, be it in collected taxes or accumulated debt… Thats a decent sized car payment, or for many, their mortgage! ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946/37 "2006-02-17T18:33:46Z")
> [@Sal Ammoniac](#): > > If I dared, I’d calculate how much this was costing me personally. But to me the point is this – the opportunity cost of this war is just staggering. The chances of Iraq having a stable democracy in the near term are about nil, and yet we’re going to continue to pour money in, with no certainty about the results. We’ve also lost the opportunity to shore up a stable, civil society in Afghanistan by diverting our resources to Iraq. This is perhaps the main reason I disapprove of the war, although in the beginning I did think it was a positive force for change. Now, probably, both countries will revert to chaos and religious fundamentalism. I have done the calculation on how much this war is costing me, on a percapita basis; it’s very depressing. Since I earn somewhat above the median salary, I’m sure it’s even worse if I were to figure in tax rates. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946/38 "2006-02-17T18:36:10Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Waging war against terrorism: $5.9 billion a month > > Not having any more jets fly into skyscrapers: priceless Even if the Iraq war actually had anything to do with preventing another 9-11, I still think that money could be better spent. As of the [2004 Census](http://www.census.gov/prod/2005pubs/p60-229.pdf), the U.S. had 37 million people in poverty, including 13 million kids. 45 million people are without health insurance. How many Americans could be saved from poverty with $6 billion a month? 9-11, as horrible as it was, cost the lives of about [3000 people](http://www.september11victims.com/september11Victims/victims_list.htm). And even if the Iraq war _were_ somehow preventing another 9-11, you have to factor in the fact that it’s cost the lives of over 2200 American soldiers, with over 16,500 wounded ([cite](http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/)). Ultimately, it will probably end up killing more Americans than 9-11 did. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946/39 "2006-02-17T18:57:43Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > The scary thing is that with posters like clothahump and martin hyde around I can’t be sure you are kidding. Sure, but they don’t be they want to kill ALL the Ay-rabs. They just want to kill the bad, fanatical ones. However, since, at any moment, any Ay-rab can turn into one of them bad, fanatical ones, well, there’s really only one way to be sure. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2006, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946/40 "2006-02-17T19:18:04Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > 9-11, as horrible as it was, cost the lives of about [3000 people](http://www.september11victims.com/september11Victims/victims_list.htm). And even if the Iraq war _were_ somehow preventing another 9-11, you have to factor in the fact that it’s cost the lives of over 2200 American soldiers, with over 16,500 wounded ([cite](http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/)). Ultimately, it will probably end up killing more Americans than 9-11 did. Let’s not forget that the war has already killed anywhere from [30,000 to 100,000](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/29/iraq.deaths/index.html) Iraqi _civilians_ as well, and people wonder why so much bad news gets reported about the Iraq War - it’s not all sunshine and light. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-9-billion-per-month/344946.md?page=3)