5 most strongest countries.

They have arguably the most powerful lobby in the country. And a lot of it is relics of the bygone era when “protecting small farmers” really was helping out some of the poorest members of our society. Small farmers these days are generally people who are making six figures a year and hold a million dollars or more in assets at any given time.

Then of course a lot of pork benefits the large agribusiness corporations as well, which is totally devoid of any association with the small farmer of yesteryear.

Since this discussion’s moved on from mechanized war to economic war (which is what the New World Order is all about) let’s break down the particulars. Granted, all I’ve learned about global domination comes from playing games like Risk, Shadow President, and Civilization IV (Civ5 sucks, IMO) but the underpinning goals are very simple. To win the game, you need the following: (1) land, (2) resources, and (3) population.

The United States of America has (1), (2) & (3) in spades – in addition, we’re a young, unified nation with common ideals and have never suffered major damage from previous mechanized wars. The American Dollar is still the world’s strongest currency (even compared to the stately British Pound and the struggling Euro), we grow more food than we can consume, and our high tech manufactured goods rank among the most desired in the world – and if we run out of oil reserves, we can always invade Canada. :cool:

China’s always been a major power (until the Ming Dynasty, the Chinese were the most technologically advanced nation on Earth) but suffered some major setbacks once the Economic Game went global. Until recently, they suffered from lack of resources and too much population, but as of the current regime they’ve become much more balanced. Still, their resurgent economy depends entirely on support from the United States, due to outsourced jobs and treasury bonds – severing ties with the U.S.A. would destroy them utterly, leaving the rest of the world relatively unscathed.

European nations during the Renaissance took advantage of Imperialism to acquire more land & resources, while the rest of the globe remained in a dark age or inhabited by stone age natives (esp. North America) – the Eurozone was created primarily to remain economically competitive in the post-Imperial era. Russia’s massive surplus of land & resources guaranteed their competitiveness despite the collapse of Communism, while Japan (with very few resources, except sushi) remained a backwater nation until their 20th Century surge, which resulted in the U.S.A. showering them with atomic bombs stuffed with Sony radios & tentacle porn.

Smaller nations like India, Taiwan & Mexico will always remain second fiddle, due to being out-competed by the larger powers; the Middle East is already teetering due to oil supplies running dry, and potential players like Brazil have yet to get their act together. Africa was never in the running, and Australia’s population remains way too low to produce anything significant besides beer, cute koalas, and treason-minded jerks who spill classified documents onto the Internet. :rolleyes:

IOW, don’t expect the U.S.A.'s position as Top Dog to change any time soon. America can’t call the shots like we used to, but the Economic Game is based on cooperative synergy, not military might – which we can always fall back on, whenever necessary.

Except California, which gets a cloned pair of ultra-green, coyote ugly liberal chicks. (Well…I’d still do Barbara Boxer on a dare, but only if I were drunk.)

Excuse me…USDA figures for 2007 (the most recent I could find) show
that the average farmer’s net income after all expenses have been subtracted from revenues is $35,000. Most have some additional off-farm income that adds an additional $10,000 or so to the annual take. The assets they hold are not really pertinent to the discussion, as these represent a sunk cost.

Having been involved in agriculture for most of my life, and having been a small farm operator for the last fifteen years, I can tell you that my net income has never approached six figures, even with outside work.

The largest profits in the agricultural sector accrue to processors and wholesalers - the middlemen. Neither the producers (farmers) nor the end retailers make a large profit.

The american dollar is not as valuable as you think.

We need to do a dick contest after this thread is over. I am sooo looking forward to it.

My six figures may have been a bit high; from the Structure and Finances of U.S. Farms: Family Farm Report, 2007 Edition I’m reading that the farm operator households have an average household income of 81,596.

Retirement farms operators have average household income of 62,468; Residential/lifestyle farm operators have average household income of 96,515; low-sale small farm operator households average 63,043; medium sale 70,364; large scale farm operator households average 125,120; very large scale average 272,527.

Average net worth of a farm operator household (across all types of farms) is 739,953.

Million dollar farms account for 59% of agricultural production, despite being outnumbered 10 to 1 by small farms. Non-family farms make up 21% of agricultural production, and the 2 million farms and ranches with gross annual sales less than $250,000 account for 15% of total production. So a lot of the justification for all that surplus money is going to those 2 million small farms that are outproduced some five times over by large farms who number only around 180,000. I don’t have a problem with small family farms but when they represent only 15% of our agricultural output, but are a huge part of the reason politicians can get away with massive agricultural subsidies I do sort of question their value.

This is flat our wrong, and is a stunning example of how people feel free to speculate wildly about China with absolutely no reference to the real world. Most of these “what will we do when China takes over the world” discussions have about as much to do with reality as the “What will we do when aliens take over the world” discussions do.

China is a diverse and deeply divided country with strong regional identities, dozens of languages, some very angry minorities and the world’s largest urban/rural divide. The people of Shanghai enjoy the same standard of living we have in the west. The people of rural Guizhou have the same standard of living as Ghana. The people of rural China are obviously pretty grumpy about this.

But there is one thing that keeps this all together. One common thread that everyone can hold on to. The Communist Party failed to bring about the worker’s paradise while at the same time striking crippling blows to the old beliefs and social institutions that used to hold people together. But the Communist Party of today can promise one thing, and it’s that one common mission that keeps these disparate people working together.

We will make you rich.

The moment that promise looks like it might falter, the people will chuck the Party like yesterday’s trash. They have absolutely no need or affection for it beyond the fact that it seems to be paying off in a rising standard of living. Any sort of major economic shock would pretty much instantly result in the sort of massive change that will leave China unrecognizable.

One of the reasons why Chinese nationalism is so emphasized is precisely because that nationalism is not there by nature. It’s the only other thing they’ve got to keep the place a united country, and there are a lot of people who aren’t swallowing it.

When the data is so highly skewed, talking about the “average” is problematic.
According to State Fact Sheets: United States 59.8% of US farms have (gross) sales less than $10k. I’m unconvinced these could be described as viable farms.

As compared to which currency?

Whatever China’s doing politically, it seems to be working. Sure, there’s lots of inherent problems, but any nation of that size which is able to maintain a steady growth rate despite the worst worldwide recession since the 1930’s must be doing something right.

Economically it’s doing great, which is why it can get away with being so politically unstable.

They have one enormous province, nine times the size of Texas, that hates being China so much that they have to be kept under martial law for decades at a time just to keep daily activities going. Xinjiang is also enormous and unhappy. After the last round of riots they cut off all internet to the entire province for most of a year. Can you imagine being so out-of-control of your territory that you have to rely on strict control just to keep things from falling apart? And these are the small threats.

The larger threats come from the millions of migrant workers and rural poor who are realizing that they may never get their piece of the pie. There is only so long you can tell people “your turn is coming” when they are still living without running water, etc. in the shadows of skyscraper cities that they can only enter as illegal aliens. If you think the Mexico/US border is a stark divide that is hard to control, imagine a US/Ghana border. That’s what China has in various forms all over the country.

The party is split into fiefdoms each running their own sort of franchise Party on their own agenda, Beijing needs the economic cities much more than the economic cities need Beijing. Beijing also has to take orders from the PLA, which is not always in step with the official government. Far from being all-powerful technocrats, Beijing is in many ways just trying to keep control of their own cities. Even the smallest internal split high in the party could cause massive problems. Right now everyone is glad to shut up and play along, but what if there was a crisis that could change.

Again, when it’s going well it works, but we’re yet to see what happens when growth (which is partially fueled by a demographic boom) slows down.

I saw people pick up the agricultural part, so I’ll skip that. But in addition to that, despite what people think, the US still produces 65% of its manufactured goods domestically. And while China is a major trade partner ($365.98 billion exported to the US in 2009). Canada was a bigger partner in 2009 ($429.64 billion). It looks like China may have broken into the top place in 2010 displacing Canada. But I can’t find those numbers. In all China accounted for less than 20% of the $2.5 trillion total imports in 2009. And 20% of 35% is a grand total of 7%.

Sure the loss of 7% of our economy would instantly plunge the US into a deep recession. But it would hardly be the zombie apocalypse. And the loss of that $365.98 billion in trade would be a bigger blow to China’s $6 trillion economy than to the US’s $14 trillion economy.

The US Dollar is still the de facto reserve currency of the world, with over 60% of foreign currency reserves held in USD. Followed by the Euro at about 30%, then everyone else. So clearly someone likes it.

Back to the OP: besides it’s nuclear weapons, France has a domestic arms industry including modern aircraft, tanks, missiles and warships. It has the third or fourth largest military budget in the world, and participates in peacekeeping missions in several parts of the world, especially it’s former colonies in Africa. It definitely is in the top five, although everyone looks minor compared to the USA.

France has a fine military. Good weapons systems and decent training. Even decent logistics, IIRC. Germany also has a fine military with even better weapons (their MBT is actually better than ours from what I’ve heard, though obviously they have no where near as many as we do) and decent training as well. Unfortunately none of the Europeans really emphasize their military (or their military spending) enough to really be able to project them much beyond their own shores (and, from what I recall, their training isn’t as good as it could be). They rely rather heavily on the US to carry the majority of the water when it comes to global military projection.

Still, France, Germany and the UK are light years ahead of someone like the Chinese, capability wise. They have better overall training, good doctrine, top shelf weapons systems, and good personnel.

-XT

When it comes to war, home field advantage is a huge factor. A lot of countries have significant military forces but lack the ability to project most of those forces much beyond their borders.

So China would be defeated if it tried to invade France and France would be defeated if it tried to invade China.

Interesting site here: World Military Strength Rankings that addresses this very question.

  1. USA
  2. China
  3. Russia
  4. India (??!)
  5. UK

I’m actually surprised that Brazil isn’t in the top 5 (it’s at #8). One “powerhouse” nation that people frequently forget about…
SS

Yup! Never fired and only dropped once!

You’re posting from 2003?

My husband and I took a serious look at this, and I don’t think the US could actually successfully invade Canada. Sorry. :slight_smile: I think you’re right about economic war, though.

The Canadian dollar has been basically on par the the US dollar for the couple of years. There was a period not too long ago when the Canadian dollar was trading significantly above the USD.

Best way to tell is which country wins at MXC. It’s the world’s most toughest competition.