# 5 women accuse Louis CK of sexual misconduct **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 9, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152 "2017-11-09T22:27:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152/61 "2017-11-10T14:10:42Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > By the way, a friendly word of advice to **thirdname** or anybody else reading this thread who thinks it’s perfectly okay to perform sex acts uninvited in the presence of your coworkers or employees as long as they don’t actually run away or yell at you to stop it: **No, it’s not okay.** If you are doing that sort of thing, you need to cut it out and not do it again. Is anyone arguing that what Louis CK did was not inappropriate and skeevy? It’s perfectly clear to me which side of the okay/not okay line it falls on. But there are other lines that aren’t as clear, like the criminal/not criminal line and the coercive/not coercive line. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152/62 "2017-11-10T14:22:02Z")
> [@Randolph](#): > > This is a somewhat-odd aside, but I just don’t get how these guys can just whip out their dicks and be coming a few seconds later onto the nearest convenient female comedian / potted plant / whatever. I know those aren’t the circumstances in most of these allegations, but a couple of stories have me wondering about the logistics of such sordidity. (Not in a doubtful way, in a dude, wtf way.) I’ve wondered if the state of mind while aroused causes these sorts of lapses in judgments. I’m sure we’ve all done many _consensual_ things during sex that would seem quite gross in other circumstances. But in the moment, it’s the hottest thing in the world to put that thing in that place. So perhaps in the state of arousal, the part of the brain involved in critical thinking is turned off. Not that it makes it okay in any way, but just as a way of understanding how these bizarre acts could seem like a good idea to them. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152/63 "2017-11-10T14:33:02Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > I’ve wondered if the state of mind while aroused causes these sorts of lapses in judgments. I’m sure we’ve all done many _consensual_ things during sex that would seem quite gross in other circumstances. But in the moment, it’s the hottest thing in the world to put that thing in that place. So perhaps in the state of arousal, the part of the brain involved in critical thinking is turned off. Not that it makes it okay in any way, but just as a way of understanding how these bizarre acts could seem like a good idea to them. That seems plausible. Adrenaline tends to reduce people to their basest, most lizardy nature. Most people have stories of something ridiculous someone said or did during sex. I think we have a fantastic, hilarious thread about that from years ago. One woman reported visiting the dorm of a college friend who sat her down on the couch, turned to her and said, “Would you like to touch Mr. Pickle?” ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152/64 "2017-11-10T15:13:15Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Is anyone arguing that what Louis CK did was not inappropriate and skeevy? It’s perfectly clear to me which side of the okay/not okay line it falls on. But there are other lines that aren’t as clear, like the criminal/not criminal line and the coercive/not coercive line. First off, Louis CK’s prospects are not looking good right now and the coming days will reveal whether things will get a lot worse for him or not. In the wake of the Weinstein revelations, a lot or women (and former teenaged boys) have come forward about a lot of famous men. Maybe some of them deserve to be kicked out of the Pantheon of Famous People. Some of the revelations, though, are of utterly mundane peccadilloes. Somewhere, there is a line between the men who deserve society’s scorn and the ones who maybe don’t, the ones whose tawdry behavior is maybe no worse than yours or mine. My gut feeling right now is that Louis CK is right on that line. Maybe more will come out about him in the coming days to change my feeling about him, but right now I think dogpiling on him is a little opportunistic. I think a lot of young men on the cusp of becoming celebrities have done a lot worse (The Beatles and Stones in the early 60s, Zeppelin and David Bowie in the early 70s) than what Louis CK, at a comparable point in his career, is alleged to have done, and their best work was still ahead of them. A lot of very selective outrage is getting swept up in the Sharknado that is the Me Too hashtag. Let’s put down the torches and pitchforks and take a deep breath for a moment, shall we? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152/65 "2017-11-10T15:31:45Z")
Louis CK’s behavior wasn’t just creepy. Women report that he used his management team to suppress their speaking out. Women said they feared for their career’s would be damaged if they spoke out. Another woman said that she gave up on her dream of having a career in comedy after her encounter with CK. I am constantly amazed at the behavior that some people on the Dope will defend. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152/66 "2017-11-10T16:52:38Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Louis CK’s behavior wasn’t just creepy. Women report that he used his management team to suppress their speaking out. Women said they feared for their career’s would be damaged if they spoke out. Another woman said that she gave up on her dream of having a career in comedy after her encounter with CK. I am constantly amazed at the behavior that some people on the Dope will defend. Anything, _anything_ to preserve the status quo. The ones who decide whether it’s a “real” problem are those who have the least stake in it. The victim’s experience means shit. I’ve been here ten years and these threads are basically unchanged. Ten years of listening to men argue with each other about what is and isn’t acceptable behavior toward women, with the apologists paying no regard whatsoever to the experience of women. And I’m always grateful men are speaking up (and I do notice them speaking up more lately) because it’s obvious the apologists don’t give a damn about women’s opinions about what happens to them. It doesn’t matter to them what these women felt, only the imaginary hypothetical way men think they would feel in a situation they would almost never encounter. It’s funny, experience is rarely ignored in less controversial contexts. I find CK’s behavior more repugnant than a lot of those who have been accused, not for the actions themselves but his doubling down, express lack of shame and attempt to use it as creativity fuel for the furthering of his career. If he had said, “Shit, that’s gross of me, I never should have done that, I’m going to learn from it” it would be one thing. Hell, I wouldn’t have even begrudged him addressing that learning process in his stand up comedy. But he basically responded with, “Look, Woody Allen did some fucked up shit and he’s a genius! We’re all perverts, see?” I mean seriously, fuck this guy. ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152/67 "2017-11-10T17:17:06Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > There is no indication from the reports that they laughed **while** he was masturbating or otherwise encouraged him in any way. Your statement does make me wonder about the specifics of what went down during the act. Was it just awkward silence while he jacked? Were they still talking shop, but with the added visual of him jacking while conversing? Was he commenting on his actions like “yeah ladies, look at that, does it make you horny baby?”. My mind is so far removed from ever doing such a thing that I can’t even imagine how such an act would play out. But if I had to guess, I would guess there was awkward silence. And that wouldn’t be sexy in any way for the person jacking would it? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152/68 "2017-11-10T17:23:31Z")
> [@xizor](#): > > Your statement does make me wonder about the specifics of what went down during the act. Was it just awkward silence while he jacked? Were they still talking shop, but with the added visual of him jacking while conversing? Was he commenting on his actions like “yeah ladies, look at that, does it make you horny baby?”. > > My mind is so far removed from ever doing such a thing that I can’t even imagine how such an act would play out. But if I had to guess, I would guess there was awkward silence. And that wouldn’t be sexy in any way for the person jacking would it? Shock and surprise seems to be a motive of the exhibitionist so maybe awkward silence really gets him going? I agree that it’s weird. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152/69 "2017-11-10T17:38:58Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > First off, Louis CK’s prospects are not looking good right now and the coming days will reveal whether things will get a lot worse for him or not. > > In the wake of the Weinstein revelations, a lot or women (and former teenaged boys) have come forward about a lot of famous men. Maybe some of them deserve to be kicked out of the Pantheon of Famous People. Some of the revelations, though, are of utterly mundane peccadilloes. Somewhere, there is a line between the men who deserve society’s scorn and the ones who maybe don’t, the ones whose tawdry behavior is maybe no worse than yours or mine. > > My gut feeling right now is that Louis CK is right on that line. Maybe more will come out about him in the coming days to change my feeling about him, but right now I think dogpiling on him is a little opportunistic. > > I think a lot of young men on the cusp of becoming celebrities have done a lot worse (The Beatles and Stones in the early 60s, Zeppelin and David Bowie in the early 70s) than what Louis CK, at a comparable point in his career, is alleged to have done, and their best work was still ahead of them. A lot of very selective outrage is getting swept up in the Sharknado that is the Me Too hashtag. Let’s put down the torches and pitchforks and take a deep breath for a moment, shall we? The problem is, you don’t get to say “Yeah, but what he did was WAY worse!” I hate the term “non-consensual sex” or non-consensual sexual behaviour" - replace that with rape/sexual assault and sexual harassment. So no, Louis CK, as much as I really enjoyed his standup, doesn’t get to sexually harass a bunch of female comics and then say “Yeah, but what that guy did way worse!” He victimized and violated (yep, sure did even if he never touched them) unwilling women for his own sexual gratification and pleasure. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152/70 "2017-11-10T17:51:16Z")
What excellent posts, **kimstu**. Absolutely phenomenal. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152/71 "2017-11-10T18:17:24Z")
If more women start coming forward making the same accusation, just remember not to make the mistake of assuming that more accusers = he _must_ be guilty. This is a high-profile case. High-profile cases can, and do, attract people who weren’t involved, but who claim they were involved because it means more attention for them or makes them “special” in some way. The most obvious examples of this happened during the Salem witch trials, which were some of the highest-profile cases of their time. Each accusation needs to be evaluated on its own merits or lack thereof, and not assumed to be true because other people say the same thing happened to them. This has been a public service announcement. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152/72 "2017-11-10T18:26:15Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Louie burns through money as fast as he gets it. That is the impression I’ve got from listening to interviews from him. > > Honestly, if this causes him a lot of shame and destroys his career I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up committing suicide. Louie strikes me as someone barely holding onto life as it is. > > I personally think he will get some counseling and find a way to incorporate this stuff into his act, and most of his audience will more or less forgive him. Well, that wraps it up, then. Can I borrow your crystal ball? I’ve got some bets to place this weekend. > [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Until now, I didn’t know the ‘CK’ stood for Come King. Clearly stands for “Cock Knocker”. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152/73 "2017-11-10T18:33:42Z")
I just got an alert from the Washington Post that Louis C.K. has apologized for his sexual misconduct and says that the stories are true. I will post a link as soon as the WaPo puts it up. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152/74 "2017-11-10T18:35:30Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > As for “consequences”, it does not say anything about him threatening any consequences or even about them fearing them. But suppose they did “fear” it. Is he he guilty of assault due to threats that he never made but they _imagined?_ If a black man has sex with a white woman and she consents, does it turn into rape if later she announces that she’s a racist who only consented because she _imagined_ that a black man would rape her if she said no? Other people’s imagined fears create a crime? (Or is it a civil tort of sexual harassment? I’m not clear what’s being alleged here.) What he’s guilty of is indecent exposure. There doesn’t have to be any threat involved. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152/75 "2017-11-10T18:42:18Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > Are you seriously suggesting that nobody is allowed to initiate sex with coworkers after drinking with them and inviting them into a hotel room? Just so you’re clear on the rules (well, actually it’s the penal code) you’re allowed to suggest sex with co-workers. But if you initiate sex with coworkers and they didn’t say yes, then you’re committing rape. And no cheating; you’re not allowed to try to coerce them into saying yes. In the incident being discussed here, Louis CK was legally okay when he suggested indecent exposure. He was wrong when he went ahead and committed indecent exposure. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152/76 "2017-11-10T18:44:00Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I just got an alert from the Washington Post that Louis C.K. has apologized for his sexual misconduct and says that the stories are true. I will post a link as soon as the WaPo puts it up. Here is a [link to the story](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/11/10/louis-c-k-these-stories-are-true/?hpid=hp_no-name_no-name%3Apage%2Fbreaking-news-bar&tid=a_breakingnews&utm_term=.ec2e144418e3), including his full statement. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152/77 "2017-11-10T19:24:19Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Here is a [link to the story](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/11/10/louis-c-k-these-stories-are-true/?hpid=hp_no-name_no-name%3Apage%2Fbreaking-news-bar&tid=a_breakingnews&utm_term=.ec2e144418e3), including his full statement. That’s a good apology, IMO - one of the better ones by a public figure that I’ve ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152/78 "2017-11-10T19:37:12Z")
Is this something that will be forgiven/forgotten in a few years? Charles Chaplin was eventually forgiven for his indiscretions, as was Jerry Lee Lewis. Ted Kennedy became a well respected senator, only his presidential bid was hampered. The world seems less willing to forget now. I’ve NEVER read any article about Vanessa Williams that didn’t bring up the porn scandal despite her becoming hugely famous for her talents. Pee Wee Herman is still they guy who masturbated in the porn theater nearly three decades later. Not saying he SHOULD be forgiven, but some people seem to get a pass after a while. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152/79 "2017-11-10T20:03:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s a good apology, IMO - one of the better ones by a public figure that I’ve ever seen. …an apology where you don’t actually apologize isn’t a good apology IMHO. All those words and not a single “sorry?” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152/80 "2017-11-10T20:13:14Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Is anyone arguing that what Louis CK did was not inappropriate and skeevy? It’s perfectly clear to me which side of the okay/not okay line it falls on. Apparently **thirdname** , for one, thinks the incident was no big deal and that something he believes the female comedians did somehow implied consent to Louis CK’s acts. He also keeps trying to compare it with consensual sexual relationships between colleagues. So there’s one poster at least for whom the okay/not okay line seems somewhat blurry here. > [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > But there are other lines that aren’t as clear, like the criminal/not criminal line and the coercive/not coercive line. Absolutely agree, and I certainly am advocating for any **legal** repercussions for him that aren’t fully warranted by proper investigation and trial (if a DA even deems the incidents serious enough to justify an indictment, which I doubt). His personal and professional reputation, on the other hand, are owed no protection from the consequences of his own deliberate behavior. (Including, on the plus side, his own recently-issued admission and apology statement, which I agree was well done. I especially commend his leading off by emphasizing that the people who accused him were telling the truth.) > [@Horatio Hellpop](#): > > I think a lot of young men on the cusp of becoming celebrities have done a lot worse (The Beatles and Stones in the early 60s, Zeppelin and David Bowie in the early 70s) than what Louis CK, at a comparable point in his career, is alleged to have done, and their best work was still ahead of them. Tough. Just because some celebrities in a more sexist era got a pass on taking advantage of women doesn’t mean that today’s celebrities also deserve a pass on it. Sure, it sucks to have the bad luck of being the one guy (or in the one percent of guys, or whatever) who got caught and actually had to face consequences. But they are the consequences of his own deliberate actions, and whatever some Beatles or Stones may have gotten away with decades ago is irrelevant. Mind you, I’m not arguing that Louis CK should necessarily become a complete pariah and unemployable for the rest of his life on the basis of these incidents. He apologized decently, and if he subsequently lives up to the better standards of behavior that he claims to have committed to, I wouldn’t be surprised if eventually the public largely forgives him. (I also think he could probably make great comedy someday out of mocking his own stupidity and selfishness in engaging in such behavior.) > [@Spice Weasel](#): > > Shock and surprise seems to be a motive of the exhibitionist so maybe awkward silence really gets him going? I agree that it’s weird. Yeah, it’s clear from his apology that he thought he was technically covering his ass, so to speak, by verbalizing some form of request before he actually exposed himself. But it’s also clear from the stories that he enjoyed springing the experience on people who were noticeably surprised and uncomfortable about it, rather than encouraging or enthusiastic. > [@madmonk28](#): > > Louis CK’s behavior wasn’t just creepy. Women report that he used his management team to suppress their speaking out. He alludes to that in the linked apology: > [@Louis CK](#): > > I deeply regret that this has brought negative attention to my manager Dave Becky who only tried to mediate a situation that I caused. That “mediating”, as well-intentioned as Becky might have been about it, was essentially trying to ensure that the women his client had taken advantage of would keep their mouths shut about it so his reputation wouldn’t be damaged. That may not have involved actual threats, but it is definitely a form of suppression. (and thanks **Helena330** :)) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/5-women-accuse-louis-ck-of-sexual-misconduct/801152.md?page=5)