# 50,000 reasons not to trust the USPS **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 28, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768 "2014-10-28T15:58:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768/21 "2014-10-28T19:21:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If the USPS doesn’t have enough backbone to stand up to local sheriff Joe Arpaio and make him legally justify a mail cover then there is a real problem, in my opinion. I agree. He was backed by the county attorney however, and I don’t know who they spoke to, but I’m guessing they might have thought twice about the possible consequences. If we can provide additional funding for the USPS to have a team of lawyers for this to all go through, I’m 100% on board. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768/22 "2014-10-28T19:30:47Z")
> [@babygoat666](#): > > I agree. He was backed by the county attorney however, and I don’t know who they spoke to, but I’m guessing they might have thought twice about the possible consequences. If we can provide additional funding for the USPS to have a team of lawyers for this to all go through, I’m 100% on board. The USPS doesn’t have lawyers? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768/23 "2014-10-28T20:08:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I wonder about the increase from an average of about 8,000 requests a year from 2001 to 2012, to close to 50,000 requests in 2013 alone. That is one hell of a jump. Yeah, they’re really pushing the envelope, there. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768/24 "2014-10-28T20:17:10Z")
Dealing with the USPS itself is a roaring rebuttal of government efficiency. Knowing that they willfully give away our information to any government yahoo that comes a-knockin…just seems par for the course. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768/25 "2014-10-28T20:17:50Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yeah, they’re really pushing the envelope, there. If you think you have my stamp of approval for that pun you can cancel such thoughts, and I wish you would just address the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768/26 "2014-10-28T20:19:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If you think you have my stamp of approval for that pun you can cancel such thoughts, and I wish you would just address the issue. Speaking frankly, are you? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768/27 "2014-10-28T20:23:33Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Speaking frankly, are you? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768/28 "2014-10-28T20:36:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > … > Apparently, just about _any_ government agency can get access to your “private” mail with very little effort, and I think this ability needs to be tightened considerably. And this bothers you because some twatwaffle with a sheriff’s badge in Arizona abuses his power? Why not vent on that prick instead of what is probably, the vast majority of the time, legitimate law enforcement activity. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768/29 "2014-10-28T20:37:15Z")
For years now, all that I have gotten in the mail is junk advertisements, a few magazines, a small number of Xmas cards and a yearly birthday card from my Mom. All of my bills and banking are on line and I haven’t gotten an actual letter in over a decade. I’m surprised that this is even useful anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768/30 "2014-10-28T20:41:04Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > For years now, all that I have gotten in the mail is junk advertisements, a few magazines, a small number of Xmas cards and a yearly birthday card from my Mom. All of my bills and banking are on line and I haven’t gotten an actual letter in over a decade. I’m surprised that this is even useful anymore. Exactly. Sheriff Joe might know what size shirt you wear now, or your Aunt Bessie’s return address. ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768/31 "2014-10-28T20:54:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The USPS doesn’t have lawyers? Since we’re here having this discussion, I’m guessing there aren’t enough. According to their [website](https://about.usps.com/who-we-are/legal/welcome.htm), they have 200 lawyers in their Law department. Considering that 50,000 requests were approved last year, and I’m sure they have other work that keeps them from being solely dedicated to this, they must be spread pretty thin. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768/32 "2014-10-28T20:56:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > In [this New York Times article,](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/28/us/us-secretly-monitoring-mail-of-thousands.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0) it is revealed that the USPS . A little worrisome, but not enough evidence to accuse them of malfeasance, you say? As you read on, we find out that -in fact infamous Arizona sheriff Joe Arpaio got authorization to monitor the mail of Mary Rose Wilcox, a Maricopa County supervisor, after she became critical of the way he targeted Hispanics in his immigration sweeps. > Apparently, just about _any_ government agency can get access to your “private” mail with very little effort, and I think this ability needs to be tightened considerably. When you say (or quote with approval) the phrases “monitor your mail,” and “get access to your private mail,” do you mean looking at and recording the addresses on the outside of sealed envelopes, or do you mean opening and reading the contents? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768/33 "2014-10-28T21:07:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > When you say (or quote with approval) the phrases “monitor your mail,” and “get access to your private mail,” do you mean looking at and recording the addresses on the outside of sealed envelopes, or do you mean opening and reading the contents? I mean only what is said in the article-looking at and recording the addresses on the outside of sealed envelopes. I’m not sure what you mean by the phrase “quote with approval”, unless that’s just another way of saying “quote the article”. Is it possible to “quote with _dis_approval”? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768/34 "2014-10-29T00:31:20Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Dealing with the USPS itself is a roaring rebuttal of government efficiency. This is just silly. The USPS does an astonishing job. You can get a letter from anywhere in the country to any other place in the country in just a few days for less than half a dollar. Multiply that by the number of pieces handled each day and it’s a truly Herculean task. Again multiply by the fact that the USPS has to do it with one foot in a bucket (services and price are dictated by an outside agency with little regard for the mission) and the USPS rises to the level of godlike in its efficiency. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768/35 "2014-10-29T02:40:30Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > This is just silly. The USPS does an astonishing job. You can get a letter from anywhere in the country to any other place in the country in just a few days for less than half a dollar. > > Multiply that by the number of pieces handled each day and it’s a truly Herculean task. > > Again multiply by the fact that the USPS has to do it with one foot in a bucket (services and price are dictated by an outside agency with little regard for the mission) and the USPS rises to the level of godlike in its efficiency. I handle shipping at work. It’s one of the main duties of my job. In the last year and a half, I would say that we have shipped probably 250 boxes via FedEx. Every one was delivered, only a handful later than the expected delivery date. I have shipped approximately 50 items via USPS, and 3 of them were “lost at the station.” 1 of them eventually turned up and was delivered (3 days late mind you). The other 2 were never found, despite several calls to customer service and 2 separate investigations being conducted. I personally handed those 2 packages to the clerk at the Post Office, and saw her place them in the same box as all the others. Those packages never left that station and were never heard of again. USPS is garbage. Companies whose profit is at stake do a much better job. To call them “godlike” is somewhat miraculous in its delusion. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768/36 "2014-10-29T02:48:11Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > I handle shipping at work. It’s one of the main duties of my job. In the last year and a half, I would say that we have shipped probably 250 boxes via FedEx. Every one was delivered, only a handful later than the expected delivery date. I have shipped approximately 50 items via USPS, and 3 of them were “lost at the station.” 1 of them eventually turned up and was delivered (3 days late mind you). The other 2 were never found, despite several calls to customer service and 2 separate investigations being conducted. I personally handed those 2 packages to the clerk at the Post Office, and saw her place them in the same box as all the others. Those packages never left that station and were never heard of again. > > USPS is garbage. Companies whose profit is at stake do a much better job. To call them “godlike” is somewhat miraculous in its delusion. We can compare anecdotes if you like. The only delivery service that has not lost a package that I sent or was sent to me was the USPS. FedEx, UPS, and DTL have all lost packages. I have to admit that the postmaster couldn’t find my house when he decided to deliver the first Express Mail package in our town, but he didn’t lose it, I just had to go pick it up, at my local post office, not at a depot 30 miles away where the package wasn’t there when I arrived, like UPS did. You can find government inefficiency everywhere if you look, but it takes private enterprise to really screw things up. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768/37 "2014-10-29T14:26:06Z")
You make it sound like this is something new. How many people have received letters over the years saying, “We received a package addressed to you that contained an item that is illegal to import” (almost always translated as, “Did you really think you could import a counterfeit DirecTV card that would let you get all of the channels for free?”)? Did they have a warrant to inspect all of those packages? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768/38 "2014-10-29T14:39:13Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > You make it sound like this is something new. > > How many people have received letters over the years saying, “We received a package addressed to you that contained an item that is illegal to import” (almost always translated as, “Did you really think you could import a counterfeit DirecTV card that would let you get all of the channels for free?”)? Did they have a warrant to inspect all of those packages? If the letter claims to know the content of the package, then they must have had a warrant, right? ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768/39 "2014-10-29T15:10:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If the letter claims to know the content of the package, then they must have had a warrant, right? Not necessarily. If they know that Company X in Whereveristan is shipping illegal items (because of their Joint Task Force with the authorities there, playing by the rules that apply over there), then they may know what’s in the package without ever opening the package. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768/40 "2014-10-29T15:12:55Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Not necessarily. If they know that Company X in Whereveristan is shipping illegal items (because of their Joint Task Force with the authorities there, playing by the rules that apply over there), then they may know what’s in the package without ever opening the package. Point taken. The mail cover would be on all outgoing mail from that company directed towards our country, then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-000-reasons-not-to-trust-the-usps/702768.md?page=3)