# .50 Rifles now banned in California. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 26, 2005, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737 "2005-01-26T09:08:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737/81 "2005-01-27T02:38:00Z")
> [@Madd Maxx](#): > > Ever seen an animal called a grizzly bear? How about a cape buffalo? A musk ox? An ill-tempered sea-bass with frickin’ laser beams (just kidding)? Dangerous animals are just that, dangerous. Hunting them with a .22 would be grounds for a Darwin award. That and big guns are cool and a lot of fun to shoot. This thing weighs 30 pounds. Are you really going to carry it hunting? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737/82 "2005-01-27T02:42:37Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > /only half joking > > So how much for shipping to CA? 🙂 I dunno, let’s see my car get’s about 16 MPG, and it’s about 2200 miles to CA (BTW, you don’t mind me sleeping on your couch until I can find a job out there? You won’t mind if I bring my cat along do you?), figure gas is about $2.20/ gal, car leaks about a quart of oil every 200 miles, I’ll need five days worth of food for the trip, let’s say we call it $450. Of course, then you’ve got to figure in the cost for the gun itself, and my fees for machining it. I like nice round figures, so let’s just make it an even $5K. Cash. In advance. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737/83 "2005-01-27T02:44:35Z")
Huh. And all this time I thought it was to keep the King o’ England outta your face. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737/84 "2005-01-27T02:50:35Z")
Am I the only doper who owns a .50 BMG? On [this](http://champaigncounty.tripod.com/id25.html) page is a picture of my buddy Marvin shooting it in our backyard. I **love** the gun. And I will _never_ register or relinquish it to anyone, _especially_ the government. ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737/85 "2005-01-27T02:59:26Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > This thing weighs 30 pounds. > > Are you really going to carry it hunting? Did you even bother to read the thread? This has been addressed and dispensed with. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737/86 "2005-01-27T03:09:19Z")
> [@Exgineer](#): > > Did you even bother to read the thread? > > This has been addressed and dispensed with. I see it addressed. I don’t see it dispensed with. BTW…I think the law is stupid. Almost as stupid as hunting with it. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737/87 "2005-01-27T04:03:37Z")
I never wanted to own or fire a 50 cal rifle. Aside from the weight and cost, the recoil must be ferocious. However! I object to the idea of some bureaucrat (who probably learned about guns from the movies) deciding in advance what I am allowed to even consider owning. I resent the idea of some politician with armed guards and a permit to carry concealed weapons deciding that I am too evil (?) to be trusted. The “terrorist” argument is flat out crap. A terrorist will not be lugging a 30 pound rifle and tripod down Main Street to the refinery or anywhere else. A terrorist will use more readily available guns, more easily carried, concealed and “fed”. A terrorist will be even more likely build a bomb, since it is easier and he can be far far away before it goes off. More bang for the buck, literally. If he is really hardcore, he will wear the bomb on his person and go up with it. By the way, check out the article at [sfgate.com](http://sfgate.com) … San Francisco is at it again, trying to disarm citizens, while doing nothing to do anything about the criminals. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737/88 "2005-01-27T04:07:19Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > I dunno, let’s see my car get’s about 16 MPG, and it’s about 2200 miles to CA (BTW, you don’t mind me sleeping on your couch until I can find a job out there? You won’t mind if I bring my cat along do you?), figure gas is about $2.20/ gal, car leaks about a quart of oil every 200 miles, I’ll need five days worth of food for the trip, let’s say we call it $450. Of course, then you’ve got to figure in the cost for the gun itself, and my fees for machining it. I like nice round figures, so let’s just make it an even $5K. Cash. In advance. 😃 I can probably get one at a gun show in Nevada next year when I have the money. Er… I mean I’ve had this for years, sir! I was just out shooting with some friends in Nevada, and now I’m bringing it back home into California. Registered? Why no, sir, not yet. The registration grace period is still ongoing sir, but of course I will be doing so at my earliest convenience. You know, officer, you seem like a nice guy. Here, why don’t you go treat yourself to a nice steak dinner… ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737/89 "2005-01-27T04:20:31Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > By the way, check out the article at [sfgate.com](http://sfgate.com) … San Francisco is at it again, trying to disarm citizens, while doing nothing to do anything about the criminals. THat would be the handgun ban legislation, right? I think some moron city councilperson is trying to author a handgun and shotgun ban inside SF City limits. Now, my qualifications aren’t very impressive. Aside from doing two years time at a law firm specializing in gun legislation and gun crime and civil rights(which ends Friday, yay!), I’m not an attorney. But I can tell you that a certain local lawyer is just DYING for them to pass the law so he can slap them with a suit. We talked about this situation a month ago or so. It would probably never stand the test of scrutiny, but it would be fun to watch those idiots squirm. Sam ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737/90 "2005-01-27T04:34:01Z")
That’s right Sam, it’s handguns and shotguns. I hope your lawyer friend “punishes” them but good. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737/91 "2005-01-27T07:21:48Z")
> [@Exgineer](#): > > That still doesn’t let you off the hook. RPG terminal effectiveness depends on the warhead; bullet effectiveness depends on terminal velocity. You clearly don’t have the first fucking clue what you’re talking about, and should probably bow out before you embarass yourself further. Do you even know what the term “effective range” means? It’s a military term, describing the maximum range a competently trained marksman can reasonable expect to hit his target. Teminal velocity is a factor, yes, as are the sights, the barrel, and general weapon stability. It’s a completely arbitrary number, and it can change from military to military even with the same weapon: for instance, I was tought that the effective range of an M-16A1 with iron sights was 250 meters; I understand the USMC cites a longer range. This does not mean that a lucky soldier can’t hit a man at 400 meters, nor does it mean that it won’t kill at 600 meters. All it is is doctrine stating that if the enemy is over 250 meters away, save your ammo, because chances are you won’t hit him. Incidentally, I trained with the RPG-7 (the IDF is perhaps the only military in the world to use both the RPG and the LAW, although I think both have been phased out by now). Never fired a live round, but I let off a few sub-calibers. If the target was further than 300 meters, I advanced. So Cut the patronizing bullshit, OK? It doesn’t make you look good. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737/92 "2005-01-27T10:26:28Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > So, rather than discuss the original issue, you’re focusing on specific words, probably because you’ve been proven wrong? Let’s review, shall we? > > Una said: “Historically speaking, soccer matches lead to the deaths of far more people than civilian BMG owners ever have” > > You responded:“the soccer argument is outdated, irrelevant and incorrect.” > > I mentioned soccer riots, and your response was this request:“If we talking about bans on weapons in America, let’s restrict the grounds of “who’s been killed by what” to equivalent areas, ok?” > > So I then went out and found a cite that 22 people have been killed in soccer matches in the last 20 years. Since this blows your original argument into a cocked hat (remember? When comparing deaths from the sport shooting of Barrett .50 rifles(0) to the deaths from soccer(alleged to be more than 0), you flat out stated that that claim was “outdated, irrelevant and incorrect”, my cite showed that stating that soccer has caused more deaths in the US than sport shooting Barrett .50 riles is 100% accurate, thus making Una’s claim current, relevant and accurate). Rather than admitting that you were wrong, you focus on one single word “riot”, totally ignoring the substance of the discussion for a technicality. Look, any time people on these boards mention deaths from soccer matches, they’re not talking about little Johnny running into a goalpost. If it were, would it not be more effective to bring up all the people who died in a more contact sport such as American Football? Soccer in the US is associated (to a large majority of people, IME) with riots and death. Given the fact that the majority of deaths at football stadiums pretty much worldwide over the last 20 years are more due to overcrowding, insufficient safety standards and /or Police/Security incompetence, I don’t think the reputation is fair. There is a huge difference between accidental death on a football pitch or death by accident/misadventure and shooting. Nobody kicks a football or puts up a goalpost with the intent to kill someone. You brought in Soccer riots, I asked about people killed by soccer riots in the US. Your cite was people who dies in accidents on a soccer pitch. These deaths were not the fault of the game of soccer, so comparing a ban on the game to a ban on guns is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737/93 "2005-01-27T13:12:50Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > So Cut the patronizing bullshit, OK? It doesn’t make you look good. I’m not the ignorant jackass comparing rifles to rocket launchers. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737/94 "2005-01-27T13:27:19Z")
> [@Exgineer](#): > > I’m not the ignorant jackass comparing rifles to rocket launchers. I classify a weapon by its usage, not its mechanics. The Barret is a light AT weapon (or at least, that’s one possible use for it), just like the RPG. A less powerful , more accurate AT weapon, but an AT weapon nonetheless. You idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737/95 "2005-01-27T13:52:14Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > The recoil must be ferocious. With a good muzzle brake the recoil is not bad. About the same as a 12-gauge shotgun. Over the summer a 120 lb. woman shot my .50 with no problem. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737/96 "2005-01-27T14:05:47Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > the BMG .50-has never been implicated in a crime This may be true, but we have to be careful about what we’re implying when we bring up crime statistics. When we say, “A .50 BMG has never been used in a crime,” are we not implying that, if .50 BMGs _ **were** _ commonly used in crimes, it would be O.K. to ban them? Crime statistics have nothing to do with your right to keep and bear arms. It wouldn’t matter if 10,000 crimes each year involved .50 BMG rifles… you would _still_ have a right to own one. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737/97 "2005-01-27T15:34:22Z")
> [@TwistofFate](#): > > Your cite was people who dies in accidents on a soccer pitch. These deaths were not the fault of the game of soccer, That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. The deaths of people playing soccer were not the fault of the game of soccer? Without the game they wouldn’t have been killed! How can that be “not the game’s fault”? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737/98 "2005-01-27T16:05:36Z")
> [@](#): > > **Crafter\_Man** said: > This may be true, but we have to be careful about what we’re implying when we bring up crime statistics. When we say, “A .50 BMG has never been used in a crime,” are we not implying that, if .50 BMGs were commonly used in crimes, it would be O.K. to ban them? Although it is often interpreted that way by the ‘other side’, I don’t think that’s the case at all. There are many items that are commonly used in crime, from kives to cars to computers, that we don’t consider banning. What we need is criminal control, not gun control. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737/99 "2005-01-27T17:13:28Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > You can ask anything you want. However, the answer might be ‘I don’t have to justify the ways in which I spend my disposable income.’ > > I don’t feel under any obligation to have ‘need’ for a particular type of firearm, or to justify my desire for one to anyone, government or not. Well, I don’t know how things work in _your_ world, but in the small pieces of it that _I_ have some control over, I tend to base my opinions, actions, or what have you, on facts. So I ask questions. As I’m sure you will point out, you don’t have to answer them, but understand something: The gripe is related to whether .50 weapons are a real potential danger. As a non-partisan on the issue, I want to know what the reasons for having one are. In my own way, I’m doing a risk / reward analysis. If there are good reasons for having the weapon, maybe my opinion swings your way; if the response is a snarky “mind your own business” then maybe I think there isn’t a good reason to have one, and it’s worth banning for any small measure of safety that might provide. And opinions are relevant. You can hate it all you like, but the government considers the ability to own firearms within it’s domain to control. Whichever way the constituency leans, there will be politicians there airing a pretence of agreement. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737/100 "2005-01-27T17:58:24Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. The deaths of people playing soccer were not the fault of the game of soccer? Without the game they wouldn’t have been killed! How can that be “not the game’s fault”? I didn’t explain myself too well in that sentence, but if we’re talking about someone slipping over and hitting their head off the goal post and dying, how is that the fault of the game? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-rifles-now-banned-in-california/286737.md?page=6)