# 50 Shades of Grey **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 20, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113 "2012-08-20T23:34:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/21 "2012-08-22T23:25:59Z")
Some of my students are talking about it. \ ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/22 "2012-08-23T13:19:56Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > There is a series? I thought it was just the one book. Three, actually. I think you can buy them in a boxed set. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/23 "2012-08-23T21:47:26Z")
Does the box set come with a collectible plastic fist that one might shove up their ass while reading the books? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/24 "2012-08-23T23:10:34Z")
Moved to Cafe Society from GQ. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/25 "2012-08-23T23:16:41Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Does the box set come with a collectible plastic fist that one might shove up their ass while reading the books? Humm - I guess I should check - may as well get a jump on Christmas shopping… ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/26 "2012-08-23T23:28:19Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > I’m thinking more like the novelization of [this song](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLm5oSJRxIU) ([lyrics](http://www.lyricsfreak.com/a/adam+sandler/medium+pace_20003920.html)). Oh [please](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TytGOeiW0aE). ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/27 "2012-08-23T23:40:06Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > Some of my students are talking about it. > > \ I can only hope that you teach college or at least high school. If you’re a kindergarten teacher, I’m going home to hide under the bed. ---
**Author:** ![Anise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anise/32/21721_2.png) [@Anise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anise)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/28 "2012-08-24T01:49:20Z")
Ahem. “50 Shades of Grey”= “Let’s Test the Absolute Limits of U.S. Copyright Law.” That having been said, I really think that it falls under fair use. The precedent goes all the way back to Baker vs. Selden (1879). Baker invented a new system of bookkeeping, but he didn’t know how to promote it, and he apparently wrote a very boring set of books about it. Selden wrote and successfully promoted a new bookkeeping system that… wow… sure did look an AWFUL lot like the one in Baker’s books. Not only that, though. It came out in court that Selden almost certainly got the original ideas from Baker, and that he may have even done nothing more than change the names of certain concepts. But that’s the case that (as far as I can find out) set the precedent that ideas cannot be copied, only the extremely specific expression of the ideas. Another relevant case was sometime in the 80’s. The producers of \*The Greatest American Hero" (awful show, really,) were sued by… I don’t know… whoever holds the copyright to Superman. The argument was basically “Look, we all KNOW that they ripped off the idea from Superman! Come on!” But that’s not enough to make for copyright violation. From that POV, at least FS did not actually copy the ideas. So if it ever did come to court, I don’t think it could possibly be considered anything but fair use. It would be interesting to know what everyone else thinks about this, though. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/29 "2012-08-24T02:16:56Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > According to Yahoo Answers (yes, paragon of great answers), it refers to how the character Mr. Grey is kind of screwed up (“50 shades of f’d up” said this sage of Yahoo). Wait, so the title is a pun referring to a main character’s name? My opinion of this work (which I have admittedly never read) has dropped even farther, something I didn’t think was possible. > [@Anise](#): > > Ahem. “50 Shades of Grey”= “Let’s Test the Absolute Limits of U.S. Copyright Law.” > > That having been said, I really think that it falls under fair use. I haven’t read _50 Shades of Grey_ and probably never will, but I did read as much of the first _Twilight_ book as I could take and from what I hear _50 Shades_ has changed the names and ages of the main characters, changed the setting from a small town in WA to Seattle, changed the male lead from a vampire to not a vampire, eliminated all other supernatural elements, and added a lot of explicit BDSM sex scenes while _Twilight_ has nothing racier than kissing. I assume the original fanfic version of _50 Shades_ was closer to the source material, but it sounds like the author changed enough that she wouldn’t even need a fair use defense. Unless I’ve been greatly misled about the content of _50 Shades_, it doesn’t even sound like any of the ideas of _Twilight_ were “stolen” (and as you say, ideas aren’t protected by copyright anyway) beyond the very broad one of it being a heterosexual romance set in Washington. ---
**Author:** ![Anise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anise/32/21721_2.png) [@Anise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anise)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/30 "2012-08-24T03:10:35Z")
No, I don’t think they were stolen. But it’s a fascinating legal question: what’s the situation when there is _proof_ that the original version of a given work would absolutely have been a copyright violation of another work? I don’t know if there has ever been a legal precedent for this. With Baker vs. Selden, it was probably true, but it couldn’t be proven. Over at [fanfiction.net](http://fanfiction.net), there are a few threads where everybody is all discombobulated about how they’re afraid this will get the whole site shut down. THAT, I know. ---
**Author:** ![Electric\_Warrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Electric\_Warrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electric_Warrior)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/31 "2012-08-24T03:29:45Z")
> [@tellyworth](#): > > Oh [please](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TytGOeiW0aE). [Almost](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHgaC_MApy0)! ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/32 "2012-08-25T09:16:13Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Wait, so the title is a pun referring to a main character’s name? My opinion of this work (which I have admittedly never read) has dropped even farther, something I didn’t think was possible. > > I haven’t read _50 Shades of Grey_ and probably never will, but I did read as much of the first _Twilight_ book as I could take and from what I hear _50 Shades_ has changed the names and ages of the main characters, changed the setting from a small town in WA to Seattle, changed the male lead from a vampire to not a vampire, eliminated all other supernatural elements, and added a lot of explicit BDSM sex scenes while _Twilight_ has nothing racier than kissing. > > I assume the original fanfic version of _50 Shades_ was closer to the source material, but it sounds like the author changed enough that she wouldn’t even need a fair use defense. Unless I’ve been greatly misled about the content of _50 Shades_, it doesn’t even sound like any of the ideas of _Twilight_ were “stolen” (and as you say, ideas aren’t protected by copyright anyway) beyond the very broad one of it being a heterosexual romance set in Washington. Not that I’ve read the fanfic, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the original fanfic had all the explicit BDSM sex scenes. Fanfiction does that to people. Honestly, the sexual deviancy and violence written about by the fanbase for a given franchise is more or less directly proportional to the innocence of the original work. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/33 "2012-08-25T09:36:18Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Does the box set come with a collectible plastic fist that one might shove up their ass while reading the books? I think correct usage is to use the plastic fist to assist in shoving the books up ones ass. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/34 "2012-08-25T14:18:20Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Not that I’ve read the fanfic, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the original fanfic had all the explicit BDSM sex scenes. Fanfiction does that to people. Honestly, the sexual deviancy and violence written about by the fanbase for a given franchise is more or less directly proportional to the innocence of the original work. Oh, I have no doubt about that, but the fanfic version presumably at least called the main characters by the same names as were used in _Twilight_ and I’m guessing kept the vampire element as well. The sex scenes themselves wouldn’t be a violation of _Twilight_ author Stephenie Meyer’s copyright either way, but the use of her characters and specific details of her fictional world (e.g. sparkly vampires) likely would be considered a copyright violation if Meyer chose to go to court over it. > [@Anise](#): > > No, I don’t think they were stolen. But it’s a fascinating legal question: what’s the situation when there is _proof_ that the original version of a given work would absolutely have been a copyright violation of another work? I don’t think this would make any difference unless the content of the published novel _50 Shades_ is itself close enough to _Twilight_ to be considered a copyright violation. If the _50 Shades_ author attempted to defend herself by claiming that any resemblance to _Twilight_ was mere coincidence and that she’d never even read _Twilight_ then the existence of an earlier, _Twilight_ fanfic version of her novel would be problematic for her. But if the published version of _50 Shades_ does not contain copyright-violating content then I don’t think the existence of an earlier draft should have any impact on the published novel’s status. If the fanfic version violated Meyer’s copyright or trademarks (IIRC the title/characters in a series can be trademarked) then Meyer could bring a case against the author over that, but I don’t see how she’d be allowed to claim that the published novel violated her copyright if the copyright-violating content did not even appear in the published novel. ---
**Author:** ![Anise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anise/32/21721_2.png) [@Anise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anise)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/35 "2012-08-25T16:13:05Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Not that I’ve read the fanfic, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the original fanfic had all the explicit BDSM sex scenes. Fanfiction does that to people. Honestly, the sexual deviancy and violence written about by the fanbase for a given franchise is more or less directly proportional to the innocence of the original work. Hey… hey… HEY!!! I’ve been writing NC-17 Harry Potter fanfic for nine and a half years! So be sweet. 😉 And yes, the original did indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/36 "2012-08-25T20:48:39Z")
When I read the synopsis, I was more creeped out by the idea that he wanted her to sign a contract detailing exactly what he was going to do, than all the bondage stuff. Am I the only one? (Tampon sex? WTF???) ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/37 "2012-08-25T21:28:40Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > When I read the synopsis, I was more creeped out by the idea that he wanted her to sign a contract detailing exactly what he was going to do, than all the bondage stuff. Am I the only one? > (Tampon sex? WTF???) Well, imagine how it would sell with a male author. It would come across as creepy and misogynistic. Same goes for some parts of Twilight. And while some people may have an inner freak, usually you don’t go from virgin to anal fisting. Usually there are some intermediate steps over several years of more vanilla things. Like you don’t break out your psychoses and parole experiences on the first date, nor do you force a sex contract on someone on the first. ---
**Author:** ![Kasper1014](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c89c15/32.png) [@Kasper1014](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kasper1014)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/38 "2012-08-25T22:08:15Z")
I guess I’m the only one who really didn’t see this book series as being worse than a historical romance? Maybe slightly more graphic…but not that much more. It really is a romance with “graphic” sex scenes…yes, I was disappointed. Lol ---
**Author:** ![Anise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anise/32/21721_2.png) [@Anise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anise)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/39 "2012-08-26T01:04:32Z")
I actually came to FS perversely hoping that I would find something to like in it… or at least to not hate. I could not believe that it was as bad as everyone said it was. But I was genuinely, seriously shocked at how bad the writing is. It’s easy to say that Commercial Success A,B,C, etc., contains bad writing-- but not like this. In fact, you’ll wish you never said that ANYTHING was written badly, because the overwhelming majority of everything that has ever been published by a major publisher is better than this. I read a bit of it when it was MOTU (the fanfic.) I generally don’t read Twilight fanfics, but I’d heard a lot about it. I didn’t even get through the first ten pages, and my first reaction was “Well, at least it isn’t filled with spelling and punctuation errors, but it really isn’t good at all.” (And I’ve read some bad, BAD fanfic.) It is literally exactly the same book as MOTU. Names were changed, tiny identifying details were changed, and that’s about it. And that means that it’s just as bad. That’s NOT the book that I’m going to write. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/40 "2012-08-26T01:28:23Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > My mum (she’s 67) bought the whole series. ‘It’s really a love story.’ she says - ‘A romance.’ > > Because nothing says romance like a fist up the ass. My mom is reading it too. She’s 76. “I wanted to see what all the fuss was about.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113.md?page=3)