# 50 Shades of Grey **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 20, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113 "2012-08-20T23:34:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/41 "2012-08-26T01:42:58Z")
> [@Kasper1014](#): > > I guess I’m the only one who really didn’t see this book series as being worse than a historical romance? Maybe slightly more graphic…but not that much more. It really is a romance with “graphic” sex scenes…yes, I was disappointed. Lol No, you’re not. I’ve only read the first book (I was afraid of spraining an eye-rolling muscle if I read any more), but it’s pretty much boiler-plate romance novel stretched over three books. Wide-eyed innocent who is so very plain and yet has guys falling all over her meets gorgeous, hung-like-a-horse billionaire who instantly can’t stop thinking about her. Things are antagonistic at first but then she’s overwhelmed by his passionate pursuit finds herself giving in to her hidden, totally unsuspected wantonness. And then there’s a huge misunderstanding and they’re estranged and ultimately come back together. The issue, as I see it, is that it’s neither romantic nor sexy. He’s a creepy-as-fuck stalker, what with the tracking her phone and following her to work and whatnot. She’s so immature she can only refer to her own genitals as _down there_ and clearly has no business having sex of any stripe with anyone, much less all kinds of kinky shit she’s never even heard of with some guy she’s only just met. Also, he’s a pretty crappy dom, thinking that he can just walk in, slap around someone who has zero experience with anything, fuck her, and then zip up and walk out with no special handling afterward. Even someone as vanilla as me knows that ain’t gonna work. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/42 "2012-08-26T01:57:43Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Well, imagine how it would sell with a male author. It would come across as creepy and misogynistic. Same goes for some parts of Twilight. > > And while some people may have an inner freak, usually you don’t go from virgin to anal fisting. Usually there are some intermediate steps over several years of more vanilla things. Like you don’t break out your psychoses and parole experiences on the first date, nor do you force a sex contract on someone on the first. Well, obviously. But like I said, it sounds like he said she’d have to fill out paper work before they had sex, period. (Like I said, I only read the synopsis). Bondage, meh. And it seems like Meyers is amused. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/43 "2012-08-26T02:21:43Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > The issue, as I see it, is that it’s neither romantic nor sexy. He’s a creepy-as-fuck stalker, what with the tracking her phone and following her to work and whatnot. Well, that part _does_ sound like it was directly stolen from _Twilight_, although in that book the romantic hero can track the heroine psychically. ---
**Author:** ![Anise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anise/32/21721_2.png) [@Anise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anise)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/44 "2012-08-26T02:51:09Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Well, that part _does_ sound like it was directly stolen from _Twilight_, although in that book the romantic hero can track the heroine psychically. Ah, yes. It was. But again, it’s the issue of whether this constitutes an \*idea \* (not copyright violation) or the very specific _expression_ of an idea. Here’s what I mean. If my fic is set on a train that was once used to carry passengers from town to town but now brings death and destruction in its wake, that’s NOT copyright violation. If I call it the Snogwarts Express and include lots of details about how all the students used to take it to Platform 34857387.pi, that IS copyright violation. If the shadowy character of a powerful evil force is running the train and his followers are obeying him, again, NOT copyright violation. If I call him Moldymort and describe his unfortunate lack of a nose, as well as the twisted mark that the Wait!I’mGettingBetter Eaters all have to get on their arms, then we ARE in copyright-violating land. That being said, I think that the stalker detail was borderline. Edward didn’t always track Bella psychically; he used to hang around her room in the middle of the night and stare at her while her dad slept downstairs. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/45 "2012-08-26T04:31:32Z")
> [@Anise](#): > > Ah, yes. It was. But again, it’s the issue of whether this constitutes an \*idea \* (not copyright violation) or the very specific _expression_ of an idea. Yes, I know. I was just pointing out that having the romantic hero be a creepy stalker is not a problem unique to _50 Shades_. I am wondering now if the heroine of _50 Shades_ is unusually clumsy, so much so that it seems like she must have some sort of neurological disorder, and if she spends a lot of time thinking about what she’ll make for dinner. ---
**Author:** ![Anise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anise/32/21721_2.png) [@Anise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anise)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/46 "2012-08-26T04:37:28Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Yes, I know. I was just pointing out that having the romantic hero be a creepy stalker is not a problem unique to _50 Shades_. > > I am wondering now if the heroine of _50 Shades_ is unusually clumsy, so much so that it seems like she must have some sort of neurological disorder, and if she spends a lot of time thinking about what she’ll make for dinner. Ha! So true, unfortunately (about the creepy stalker thing, I mean.) Um… yes. She is, from what everyone has said. She certainly fits that description in MOTU (which I’m starting to read again, grimly determined to get through it this time.) One other thing I thought about with FS: if I were Meyers, I’d be laughing, too. FS literally makes Twilight look like Pulitzer Prize material. I’m not kidding. I’m really not. That sounds like such hyperbole, but IT IS NOT. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/47 "2012-08-26T15:55:49Z")
I read the first book, Fifty Shades of Gray, and liked it. The thing I found surprising about the book was the powerful way it communicated the pleasure that Ana and Christian took in their kinky sex play. There was such a sense of pleasure and passion in the sex scenes. You all seem to have missed that. Also, the focus of the book was clearly on the relationship between Ana and Christian. It did not start out a healthy relationship, and Ana started out with a very weak position in comparison with Christian, but over time it evolved into something more balanced and, for want of a better word, normal. You all seem to have missed that part, too, though I’m sure it plays heavily into the book’s success, as the woman whose love helps heal a vital but wounded man is a pretty common theme in romance novels. All you seem to have caught was the unbalanced conditions that Ana and Christian’s relationship started out with. I want you all to reread the book, and this time, pay attention. You will be graded! ---
**Author:** ![Anise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anise/32/21721_2.png) [@Anise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anise)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/48 "2012-08-26T16:04:39Z")
I already reread MOTU. Isn’t that enough torture for one lifetime? ---
**Author:** ![Anise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anise/32/21721_2.png) [@Anise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anise)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/49 "2012-08-26T16:08:09Z")
And, oh yes, one other thing: I’ve been writing NC-17 fanfic for ten years. I’ve been reading it for ten years, too. I have read terrible, I have read bad, I have read marginal, I have read good, I have even read a few that are great. I _know_ good erotic fanfic. And 50 Shades was not it. I can point everyone towards some links to fics that actually \*are \*good. Most of this success can be explained, I think, by the fact that the public has not had a chance to be exposed to any range of erotic fanfic, including what is good. But they will! And then they can make up their own minds. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/50 "2012-08-26T20:53:51Z")
> [@Anise](#): > > I already reread MOTU. Isn’t that enough torture for one lifetime? MOTU? ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/51 "2012-08-26T21:16:23Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > When I read the synopsis, I was more creeped out by the idea that he wanted her to sign a contract detailing exactly what he was going to do, than all the bondage stuff. Am I the only one? > (Tampon sex? WTF???) It was a contract of agreed upon activities, set boundaries of what is and is not acceptable during a session. That’s not really as creepy as you’re trying to make it sound, as far as that community is concerned. It’s actually a pretty responsible way of doing things. ---
**Author:** ![kath94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/67e7ee/32.png) [@kath94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kath94)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/52 "2012-08-26T21:38:37Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > MOTU? Yes, please explain. Google isn’t helping. ---
**Author:** ![Southpaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@Southpaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southpaw)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/53 "2012-08-26T21:55:34Z")
MOTU = Master of the Universe; the title of the fan fiction that, with minimal changes became 50 Shades. > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I read the first book, Fifty Shades of Gray, and liked it. The thing I found surprising about the book was the powerful way it communicated the pleasure that Ana and Christian took in their kinky sex play. There was such a sense of pleasure and passion in the sex scenes. You all seem to have missed that. Also, the focus of the book was clearly on the relationship between Ana and Christian. It did not start out a healthy relationship, and Ana started out with a very weak position in comparison with Christian, but over time it evolved into something more balanced and, for want of a better word, normal. You all seem to have missed that part, too, though I’m sure it plays heavily into the book’s success, as the woman whose love helps heal a vital but wounded man is a pretty common theme in romance novels. All you seem to have caught was the unbalanced conditions that Ana and Christian’s relationship started out with. > > I want you all to reread the book, and this time, pay attention. You will be graded! Did we read the same book? Because the books I read were about a control-freak stalker and an overly naive doormat. I also found nothing powerful or sexy about the sex. In fact, by the end of the first book (despite hating them, I did read all three. Yes I’m a masochist) I was skimming the sex scenes due to the boredom. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/54 "2012-08-26T22:10:51Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I read the first book, Fifty Shades of Gray, and liked it. The thing I found surprising about the book was the powerful way it communicated the pleasure that Ana and Christian took in their kinky sex play. There was such a sense of pleasure and passion in the sex scenes. You all seem to have missed that. Also, the focus of the book was clearly on the relationship between Ana and Christian. It did not start out a healthy relationship, and Ana started out with a very weak position in comparison with Christian, but over time it evolved into something more balanced and, for want of a better word, normal. You all seem to have missed that part, too, though I’m sure it plays heavily into the book’s success, as the woman whose love helps heal a vital but wounded man is a pretty common theme in romance novels. All you seem to have caught was the unbalanced conditions that Ana and Christian’s relationship started out with. > > I want you all to reread the book, and this time, pay attention. You will be graded! :dubious: You’ve not ever read any decent erotica, have you? Also, most of us are not masochists, so we shall decline your invitation to reread that dreck. ---
**Author:** ![LVBoPeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/858c86/32.png) [@LVBoPeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVBoPeep)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/55 "2012-08-26T22:15:41Z")
I liked it…probably not for any intended reasons. It was funny, I laughed and I couldn’t put it down. Bad writing or not, I was entertained. Edited to add: My enjoyment may be directly related to the fact I got it for free through my local library and didn’t pay a dime for it. I did, however, purchase a copy for my friend. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/56 "2012-08-26T22:21:19Z")
I read it, and I liked the story. I was originally creeped out by the bondage, but that made the young protagonist relatable, she was creeped out too. Well written or not, and it did have its problems, I doubt EL James is bothered. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/57 "2012-08-27T00:17:04Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I want you all to reread the book, and this time, pay attention. You will be graded! Don’t confuse “scratches your particular itch” with “good”, my man. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/58 "2012-08-27T00:55:20Z")
Sold a rake of copies of it, so I’m delighted. I don’t think we sold a copy to anyone under 40, nor any men. ---
**Author:** ![kath94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/67e7ee/32.png) [@kath94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kath94)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/59 "2012-08-27T03:09:05Z")
For those who have complained here that 50 shades is “bad erotica,” can you suggest something better? Not being snarky, just curious, really. ---
**Author:** ![Anise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anise/32/21721_2.png) [@Anise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anise)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/60 "2012-08-27T05:45:52Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > MOTU? Master of the Universe. There are plenty of PDF’s floating around out there, although it’s long been removed from [fanfiction.net](http://fanfiction.net) It’s the bad, bad, bad Twilight fanfic that was the original 50 Shades before names and a few identifying details were changed… AND THAT’S IT. I’ll say it again; I do not have a problem at all with a published book being based on fanfics. But it really is tacky to not change a single thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113.md?page=4)