# 50 Shades of Grey **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 20, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113 "2012-08-20T23:34:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/81 "2012-09-08T10:58:59Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Yes, it did succeed EXPRESSLY because it started out as Twilight fanfic. The thing that got the big publishers all hot and bothered about 50 Shades is that it was selling HUGE numbers as an ebook, long before they found it. And that was because the Twilight fans who had followed Master of the Universe were buying it in droves. It was a bestseller BEFORE Viking go their grubby little paws on it, because of the Twilight fans. It was a bestseller as 50 Shades of Grey for over a year before a US publisher picked it up. By the time it made its way to paperback in the US, the only people that knew of its origins as Twilight fanfiction were those who sought that knowledge out. It became a big hit because it’s the latest “phenomenon book.” The Harry Potter series, Twilight, The Da Vinci Code, The Hunger Games, The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, a new phenomenon book crops up every year and people rush out to read them with no regard to the author’s backstory, of often, even what the book is about. They just want to know what the hoopla is all about. More on the publishing history and “phenomenon book” aspect: [http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/news/story/2012-07-09/fifty-shades-of-grey-el-james-summers-hottest-book/56119174/1](http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/news/story/2012-07-09/fifty-shades-of-grey-el-james-summers-hottest-book/56119174/1) ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/82 "2012-09-08T12:05:45Z")
> [@Anise](#): > > There is infinitely more NC-17 fanfic out there that is infinitely better. Recension’s \*Use Me, \*Sugarbear’s _Smoking in the Head Boy’s room_, Madeline’s \*Winning the Cup \*Series, Sarea and Jade Okelani’s _Portkey Party_, La Rubinata’s greatly superior BDSM series… and these are just the ones I thought of off the top of my head, and just in the D/G fandom. (And I’m not EVEN pimping my own fics here! 😉 Every one of them blows FS away in terms of smut, characterization, theme, plot, and everything else, really. People do not realize how substandard FS really is, and it’s because they have not read what else is out there. It’s sad. Yeah but the 50 Shades hullaballoo probably draws attention to those other writers you deem more worthy of it. ---
**Author:** ![Anise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anise/32/21721_2.png) [@Anise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anise)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/83 "2012-09-08T16:17:29Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Yeah but the 50 Shades hullaballoo probably draws attention to those other writers you deem more worthy of it. I hope so. And actually, it might. I do think that the door has been opened, and that the opportunity is there. I don’t know if others will capitalize on it; I know that some have already left the fandom… but OH, \*I \*do plan to seize that opportunity and not let go. (_Death Train: The Novel_ blog coming soon to a Wordpress site near you!) And Justin\_Bailey… something tells me that we all may have to agree to disagree here. 😉 The point is HOW it got published in the first place as anything but an ebook and how it was massively helped by the big publicity machine of that major publisher. There’s a reason why E.L. James took the offer and did not simply keep FS as an ebook. Otherwise, there would have been no point in giving up the huge difference in royalties. ---
**Author:** ![nashiitashii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7c8e57/32.png) [@nashiitashii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nashiitashii)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/84 "2012-09-09T16:53:33Z")
> [@Anise](#): > > Ahem. “50 Shades of Grey”= “Let’s Test the Absolute Limits of U.S. Copyright Law.” Even within the limits of fair use, the biggest part that’s going to work in James’ favor is similarity of content. Though a lot of it was originally based on Twilight, she changed enough of the details of the characters that it’s not a direct reproduction of Meyer’s characters in a new form. Additionally, had this been more humorous and aimed as a form of satire, she’d have more protection from lawsuits in that form as well. However, prosecution for copyright violation is up to the individual or company holding the copyright. Meyer and Little, Brown don’t appear to be interested in suing James for infringement. > [@Lamia](#): > > Wait, so the title is a pun referring to a main character’s name? My opinion of this work (which I have admittedly never read) has dropped even farther, something I didn’t think was possible. > > I haven’t read _50 Shades of Grey_ and probably never will, but I did read as much of the first _Twilight_ book as I could take and from what I hear _50 Shades_ has changed the names and ages of the main characters, changed the setting from a small town in WA to Seattle, changed the male lead from a vampire to not a vampire, eliminated all other supernatural elements, and added a lot of explicit BDSM sex scenes while _Twilight_ has nothing racier than kissing. > > I assume the original fanfic version of _50 Shades_ was closer to the source material, but it sounds like the author changed enough that she wouldn’t even need a fair use defense. Unless I’ve been greatly misled about the content of _50 Shades_, it doesn’t even sound like any of the ideas of _Twilight_ were “stolen” (and as you say, ideas aren’t protected by copyright anyway) beyond the very broad one of it being a heterosexual romance set in Washington. The relationship dynamic is the biggest thing that got cherry picked. Edward/Christian is older, more experienced\* and overly interested in protecting/controlling the young Bella/Ana. As others have said, there’s a lot of unhealthy relationship dynamics going on and some tropes that are common enough in romance novels that don’t make for good “real” relationships: a young lady who doesn’t really eat much and is reluctant to eat when her male companion asks/tells her to, an older guy who’s overly concerned with how much or little his ingenue eats in his presence (but with good reason in this case), the guy wants to be able to keep tabs on her at any time of day, a 22 year old who is more or less a complete luddite\*\*, jealousy of any man other than her father… I’m sure there’s more, but this is what I remember from skimming it about six months ago. \*In Christian’s case, unrealistically so. As a 29-year-old, there’s no way I could’ve done 1/5 of the things that Christian Grey supposedly has not only done, but become really good at doing in such a short time, even with unlimited amounts of money and free time. \*\*Look at the average 24 year old that you know (book was set in 2010/2011). How many do you know that have graduated college and don’t own a cell phone or computer and have limited knowledge of how said things work? In my experience working with college students of widely varying income levels, almost all of them have either a computer or a cell phone, if not both. A large portion of them have smartphones or at least texting-oriented feature phones. > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I read the first book, Fifty Shades of Gray, and liked it. The thing I found surprising about the book was the powerful way it communicated the pleasure that Ana and Christian took in their kinky sex play. There was such a sense of pleasure and passion in the sex scenes. You all seem to have missed that. Also, the focus of the book was clearly on the relationship between Ana and Christian. It did not start out a healthy relationship, and Ana started out with a very weak position in comparison with Christian, but over time it evolved into something more balanced and, for want of a better word, normal. You all seem to have missed that part, too, though I’m sure it plays heavily into the book’s success, as the woman whose love helps heal a vital but wounded man is a pretty common theme in romance novels. All you seem to have caught was the unbalanced conditions that Ana and Christian’s relationship started out with. > > I want you all to reread the book, and this time, pay attention. You will be graded! I just couldn’t get past all the unrealistic inconsistencies throughout the book, and the sex scenes bored me, to be frank. Ana is still in a weird position that’s not uncommon in real life (via the “trophy wife” scenario), but just because it’s common doesn’t mean it’s a great position to be in. Plus, why are we promoting the “I can change him” trope in literature? It doesn’t work and it’s unhealthy to go into a relationship expecting to mold someone into your own “perfect match”. Find someone who will work well for you as is or learn to look past the things you see as faults. I haven’t read the other two because the first one was a chore to read. Poor writing, ridiculous overuse of phrases and words, a character who’s immature enough to not be able to reference her own genitals as anything but “down there” but who’s precocious enough that she wants to try all the kinky stuff that her lover requests (with a few caveats), unrealistic experience for a 27-year-old character all built up to make it very difficult to actually finish. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/85 "2012-09-09T17:11:14Z")
> [@Anise](#): > > I checked it out on Amazon. It does look interesting! Only available from 3rd party sellers, though. A sequel is coming out next year, so it might be easier to find then. (And, yes, when you get to the end, you’ll want a sequel, assuming you like it.) And I think both Justin and you are correct. FS succeeded first because it was a Twilight fanfic, which got it picked up as a legitimate book, and had an initial audience because of that, but then rocketed to success on its own merits as well. I also find it hopeful that maybe other really good fanfics can just do a basic scrubbing of character details and be published, so that more people can actually see their work. It seems more hopeful than copyright laws being modified to allow it if sufficient creativity is shown. ---
**Author:** ![Anise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anise/32/21721_2.png) [@Anise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anise)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/86 "2012-09-09T17:24:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I also find it hopeful that maybe other really good fanfics can just do a basic scrubbing of character details and be published, so that more people can actually see their work. It seems more hopeful than copyright laws being modified to allow it if sufficient creativity is shown. YAY!!! Well, anyway, that’s what I did with two Harry Potter characters. They’re so different from who they are in canon… I can guarantee that nobody would ever recognize them (well, except for those in the Draco/Ginny fandom who have read my work. 😉 I totally agree with Nash about the character dynamics. That is, IMHO, the #1 reason why the book became a bestseller on its own merits after being picked up by a major publisher. FS is perfectly written in order to continue the Bella/Edward relationship and to take it in the direction of very explicit (and yes, rather boring) sex. For that specific purpose, the writing could not be better. For any other… well, I’ve read the entire Twilight series (hides in the Guilty Pleasure box), and Meyer’s writing was Pulitzer material compared to FS. There really is so much underlying BDSM content in Twilight. The scene in the meadow when Edward tells Bella about all the creative ways he wanted to lure her out of the school in order to drink her blood. The constant emphasis on how “breakable” she is and how he could so easily kill her without even trying. The morning after the big implied-but-not-spell-out sex scene in the fourth book! Oh, that was the most obvious… she’s covered in bruises from head to toe and raves about how much she loved it while he “feels bad.” Not bad enough to keep from continuing Teh Sex, however. At least until Bella is knocked up with the vampire spawn. And so on, and on… ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/87 "2012-09-12T01:40:02Z")
That last Twilight book was pretty compelling once they got to the action. I read it when my sister left the room, just to see what was up, and she had to tell me to give it back to her so she could finish reading. ---
**Author:** ![Anise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anise/32/21721_2.png) [@Anise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anise)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/88 "2012-09-12T04:03:56Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > That last Twilight book was pretty compelling once they got to the action. I read it when my sister left the room, just to see what was up, and she had to tell me to give it back to her so she could finish reading. Oh, the whole Twilight series was a TOTAL guilty pleasure. “This is terrible!” I’d keep screeching at the page while re-reading the book for the Nth time. I just finished a page on [Fun Facts About Copyright Law for Fanfic Authors!](http://www.deathtrainthenovel.com/?page_id=21) I think it’s very, very interesting. Many of the precedents in copyright law are not what you’d think. And who would have that 2LiveCrew would end up at the center of more than one landmark copyright case… (runs from copyright lawyers. No! I’m NOT one, nor do I play one on TV.) And btw… I just keep updating that NC-17 fanfic page. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![wyckedwahine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@wyckedwahine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wyckedwahine)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/90 "2012-11-19T21:28:51Z")
> [@lorene](#): > > My mom is reading it too. She’s 76. > > “I wanted to see what all the fuss was about.” I actually started reading the first book for that same reason… to “see what all the fuss was about.” Before that I also thought that it would be a little too much and maybe not something that I’m into reading… I’m glad I read the books. I am on the third book of the trilogy… only 20 pages away from the end… ☹ I definitely recommend the book. It’s not just Porn…and “fists up the a$$” as someone has mentioned. It is a love story and it is quite good how the author describes the memories of a young Christian Grey… As the story develops you grow anxious with Anastasia as she begins to develop feelings for this “weird” guy… very good story. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/91 "2012-11-20T00:07:41Z")
Entertaining [review](http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/340987215) of FS. And her reviews of: [Fifty Shades Darker](http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/341907930) And [Fifty Shades Freed](http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/347430024) (Duh, spoilers.) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/92 "2012-11-20T00:37:54Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Entertaining [review](http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/340987215) of FS. > > And her reviews of: > > [Fifty Shades Darker](http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/341907930) > > And > [Fifty Shades Freed](http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/347430024) > > (Duh, spoilers.) If by “entertaining” you mean “a series of visual cheap shots designed to reinforce confirmation bias in those who didn’t like the books” then yes, I guess they are “entertaining.” ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/93 "2012-11-20T03:02:11Z")
Having read the first one (I will read literally anything someone hands me, more’s the pity. I also have endured Twilight and the Da Vinci Code) that review seems pretty darn spot-on to me. As I said upthread to you, [QUOTE=Zeriel] Don’t confuse “scratches your particular itch” with “good”, my man. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/94 "2012-11-20T05:21:22Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > If by “entertaining” you mean “a series of visual cheap shots designed to reinforce confirmation bias in those who didn’t like the books” then yes, I guess they are “entertaining.” I think someone is taking this a little toooo seriously. Jesus, lighten up, would you? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/95 "2012-11-20T05:26:15Z")
I must confess that I read 50 Shades of Grey. I want my time and money back. It has NO redeeming value whatsoever. It is badly written fan fiction of a series which reads like badly written fanfiction anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Anise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anise/32/21721_2.png) [@Anise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anise)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/96 "2012-11-20T07:37:52Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I must confess that I read 50 Shades of Grey. I want my time and money back. It has NO redeeming value whatsoever. It is badly written fan fiction of a series which reads like badly written fanfiction anyway. No kidding. As for people who like it-- great. Some people liked Land of Painted Caves, too (the absolutely horrendous last book in the Jean Auel Earth’s Children series.) But what makes this sad is that I know EXACTLY how much NC-17 fanfic out there is infinitely better-- titles, authors, links, everything. And I really think that if these people read what is better, they would change their minds or at least be able to see it in context. Understand, FS is perfectly written in order to take advantage of a lot of forces working in the cultural zeitgeist right now. But I know exactly, EXACTLY how and why it came to be what it is. When you do know these things, it’s just about impossible to think many good things about it. Well, except that it’s paved the way for other NC-17 fanfic writers. Okay. That IS one good thing. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/97 "2012-11-20T07:44:51Z")
> [@Anise](#): > > Well, except that it’s paved the way for other NC-17 fanfic writers. Okay. That IS one good thing. 😉 Well, there is fanfiction of Lance Bass and the Weasley Twins (I have not read it, but [cracked provides](http://www.cracked.com/article_16554_the-5-most-baffling-sex-scenes-in-history-fanfiction.html) detail) and if that and other slash fictions start getting printed than NO its not a good thing.😉 PS what kind of fanfiction do you write anyway. The only recent NC17 I read was Star Wars; Anakin and Padme and that was rather meh especially since Padme was suspiciously lilke Evey from V for Vendetta. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/98 "2012-11-20T07:56:16Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Entertaining [review](http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/340987215) of FS. > > And her reviews of: > > [Fifty Shades Darker](http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/341907930) > > And > [Fifty Shades Freed](http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/347430024) > > (Duh, spoilers.) Reminds me of the hilarious analysis of the Twilight series in relation to Mormon theology. > **[LDS Sparkledammerung IS HERE!](https://stoney321.livejournal.com/317176.html)** > > The Secrets of the Sparkle a.k.a. TWILIGHT: STONIFIED (Image heavy) ETA Due To Heavy Traffic This was written to amuse my friends and myself. I am not claiming to be the Mormon Vampire Authority, even though let's face it: I am the leading Mormon... In fact, they’re so close I almost wonder if they’re by the same person. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/99 "2012-11-20T08:43:22Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Other readers have so many prejudices about the book (and I suspect the kinky sex that it contains) that they will do any horrible stupid thing they can think of to make it look bad. I’ve got nothing against kinky sex. As long as everyone involved is a relatively sane adult and wholeheartedly supports the nature of the relationship, I don’t care if it’s polyamoury, sadomasochism, homosexuality or anything else, knock yourself out. But that’s where Fifty Shades of Grey falls down. BDSM should be just as much about what the submissive partner wants as what the dominant partner wants. Fifty Shades is not. Christian is constantly overstepping this boundary, using every tool at his disposal to manipulate Ana into doing things she doesn’t want to do, from making her sign an NDA to isolate her from her friends to using his fortune to remove all potential witnesses before threatening to rape her in public. If Fifty Shades of Grey was a healthy BDSM relationship, Ana would never have reason to fear that Christian would hit her out of anger. And she would not be constantly crying, alone, about how isolated the relationship made her feel. That’s not BDSM, that’s abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/100 "2012-11-20T15:21:44Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I think someone is taking this a little toooo seriously. Jesus, lighten up, would you? I wasn’t aware that I was being heavy. However, it’s possible my response was informed by all the articles I’ve read about Fifty Shades that were nothing more than cheap shots at it, often by people who have admittedly never read it. (Been tracking news about Fifty Shades on the Web for my blog.) I still think my description of the reviews is accurate, however. YMMV! ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113/101 "2012-11-20T16:32:55Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > But in the end does she get a ring …? > > Oh wait… that was Caligula. Never mind. No, the one with the ring was just a finger, and anyway it’s a movie. [spoiler][Airbag](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115487/). It’s an example of Spanish absurdism on a par with Oscar-winner Belle Époque. In one of the initial scenes, virgin groom-to-be Juantxo is taken by his pals to a brothel during his stag night, losing his engagement ring - inside the ass of one of the whores. The rest of the movie is about the troubles he and his friends go to in order to retrieve the ring in time for the wedding. And yes, in Spain it is common for men to have engagement rings, usually ungemmed bands identical to those of their fiancé(e)s.[/spoiler] I haven’t read “50 shades”, but one of my coworkers started skimming a copy while at the airport and started ranting against the translator. He looked ready to faint when I told him it wasn’t the translator’s fault, it really is that bad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/50-shades-of-grey/632113.md?page=6)