# 500mpg Car **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 5, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896 "2005-04-05T20:00:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![robz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac8455/32.png) [@robz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robz)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896/1 "2005-04-05T20:00:04Z")
Maybe this should be in debates but this statement seems out there: "It is possible with existing technology to build a car that gets 500 miles per gallon, " from :[http://www.apolloalliance.org/apollo\_in\_the\_news/archived\_news\_articles/2005/03\_30\_05\_fortworth.cfm](http://www.apolloalliance.org/apollo_in_the_news/archived_news_articles/2005/03_30_05_fortworth.cfm) 3rd paragraph from the bottom. Is there any truth to this statement or is this some fantasy? In the context of a car running on some oil based fuel. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896/2 "2005-04-05T20:14:30Z")
It depends upon how you define “car.” If you mean anything remotely resembling vehicles currently on the road in appearance, then no. However, if you mean a vehicle capable of transporting one, possibly two, people in a manner identical to the automobile, but with a radically different appearance, then the answer is “Yes.” Throwing out any tinfoil hatted ideas of 500 MPG carbs, we’re left with a hybrid vehicle that uses a diesel engine, sacrifices everything in the way of styling for aerodynamics, and is built primarily out of ultralight composite materials. Even the tires would have to made out of special materials for reasons of weight and rolling resistance. In short, you’d end up with a car that looked like [this](http://users.aol.com/ab6ui/private/ab6ui.gif). Solar cells, optional. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896/3 "2005-04-05T20:21:22Z")
Well, such a car could be built, but I suspect it would be like those solar racing cars, where everything is sacrificed to lightness and efficiency… the sole occupant, the driver, has to lie prone and view the road through a small window, there are no amenities, the tires are high-pressure/low-rolling-resistence models that only work under ideal dry conditions, the mileage test is done on flat level dry ground at low speed, etc… Limiting factors would include things like the amount of energy needed to accelerate and decelerate the car’s mass, to punch through the air at a given speed, etc. No matter what power source you are using, given a vehicle of a specified shape, size and mass operating with specified accelerations and speeds, there would be a minimum energy needed. Doing the same with a vehicle that could take normal use would be more difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896/4 "2005-04-05T20:22:30Z")
It’s a misleading and incomplete claim. As **Tuckerfan** noted, it’s not true in the context of cars as perceived by the average citizen. It’s also possible she’s referring to hybrid technology that can get X miles per gallon of **gasoline** , but **failing to mention that supplemental fuels are used** (alcohol, etc.), and that there’s no way on God’s green earth to get X miles per gallon of **fuel**. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896/5 "2005-04-05T20:25:27Z")
Do a google search for “mileage marathon” - that’s where people build special vehicles and compete for the highest fuel economy. The winning teams routinely achieve 1000 mpg, as I understand, but these are on closed circuits and the vehicles look nothing like production automobiles. They’re closer to engine-assisted bicycles. (Tricycles, to be specific.) Volkswagen’s prototype [1-liter car](http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-vw-1-liter-car.htm) (1 liter per 100 km, or about 260 mph) looks a bit more like a “real” car, and they do it without hybrid technology. Just a highly tuned 1-cylinder 0.3-liter diesel engine combined with an ultra-lightweight and extremely aerodynamic body. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896/6 "2005-04-05T20:31:02Z")
Sorry, that should read “1 liter per 100 km, or **239** mp **g** ”. Another article did mention they achieved 260 mpg in a test run. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896/7 "2005-04-05T20:32:23Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Volkswagen’s prototype [1-liter car](http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-vw-1-liter-car.htm) (1 liter per 100 km, or about 260 mph) looks a bit more like a “real” car, and they do it without hybrid technology. Just a highly tuned 1-cylinder 0.3-liter diesel engine combined with an ultra-lightweight and extremely aerodynamic body. I bet that the 0-60 MPH performance absolutely sucks. IAC, do you _really_ want to be driving a motorized cockroach on interstates choked with semi’s and SUVs? ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896/8 "2005-04-05T20:43:44Z")
The Shell Eco-marathon record for gasoline powered “cars” was set in 2003 by a French entry called “Microjoule” at 10,701 mpg. There may be a newer record but I haven’t found it. I couldn’t find a good site with technical detalis. ---
**Author:** ![robz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac8455/32.png) [@robz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robz)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896/9 "2005-04-05T20:44:12Z")
> [@Gary T](#): > > It’s a misleading and incomplete claim…\*\*. I guess that sums it up. Its too bad because I agreed with the basic premise of the web site i.e. 10 year plan for energy independence. but making outragous justifications sorta makes me think they are just wing nuts. thanks ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896/10 "2005-04-05T21:10:58Z")
> [@robz](#): > > I guess that sums it up. Its too bad because I agreed with the basic premise of the web site i.e. 10 year plan for energy independence. but making outragous justifications sorta makes me think they are just wing nuts. > > thanks Sadly, _both_ sides of the issue are pretty much wing nuts. You’ve got the fat cats on one side saying that we’ll never run out of oil, and that there’s no such thing as the greenhouse effect, and then on the other side, you’ve got the eco-weenies who think that no matter what we do, we’re doomed. The truth lies somewhere inbetween. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896/11 "2005-04-05T21:33:35Z")
motorized cockroach-like cars that we saw in Woody Allen’s “SLEEPER” movie! (Anybody have a link to those things)? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896/12 "2005-04-05T21:38:18Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > motorized cockroach-like cars that we saw in Woody Allen’s “SLEEPER” movie! (Anybody have a link to those things)? [Google is your friend.](http://images.google.com/images?q=%22mileage%20marathon%22&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&sa=N&tab=wi) ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896/13 "2005-04-05T21:40:11Z")
Motorised cockroach-like cars? We’ve got the [next best thing](http://www.thesmart.ca/)… I saw two of them on the streets yesterday evening. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896/14 "2005-04-05T21:51:28Z")
Yes, but Daimler-Chrysler is getting rid of the two-seat vehicle and keeping only the four-seater. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896/15 "2005-04-05T21:57:11Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Motorised cockroach-like cars? We’ve got the [next best thing](http://www.thesmart.ca/)… I saw two of them on the streets yesterday evening. They ever get the moose thing solved with them or not? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896/16 "2005-04-05T22:18:45Z")
The Master has written on the subject: [200 mpg carburetors possible?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_150.html) ---
**Author:** ![Moe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moe/32/2972_2.png) [@Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moe)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896/17 "2005-04-05T22:55:32Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > The Master has written on the subject: > [200 mpg carburetors possible?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_150.html) From the column: > [@Perfect](#): > > People today are less concerned about energy efficiency, and for good reason: corrected for inflation, gasoline today costs less than it did in 1973… > > …The superefficient cars now on the drawing boards don’t figure to be cheap, and unless gas prices skyrocket, the fuel savings probably won’t cover the higher cost. Barring a sudden burst of altruism on the part of the car-buying public, chances are you won’t see ultra-high-mileage cars for sale until we’re down to the last two gallons of Arab oil. heh. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896/18 "2005-04-05T23:31:48Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > I bet that the 0-60 MPH performance absolutely sucks They describe its performance as ‘surprisingly lively’ - don’t forget the thing weighs next to nothing. That said, I’m sure it’s not going to be anything spectacular, but this is just an experimental model - it won’t go into production (although some of the lessons learned from it, if any, may turn up in ordinary production models in the future). ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896/19 "2005-04-05T23:48:24Z")
> [@Hoodoo Ulove](#): > > The Shell Eco-marathon record for gasoline powered “cars” was set in 2003 by a French entry called “Microjoule” at 10,701 mpg. There may be a newer record but I haven’t found it. I couldn’t find a good site with technical detalis. That’s the record, still. [Here’s a page on it](http://www.la-joliverie.com/microjoule.htm), in French, of course. You can see a pic of the “car” there, it’s basically a land torpedo. This isn’t going to be anyone’s daily driver soon. And as for performance, check the pictures on [this page](http://www.shef.ac.uk/~mms/pictures.html) from a group of milage marathon competitors in the UK. You can see some of the competitors being paced by bicycles. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896/20 "2005-04-05T23:55:07Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > They describe its performance as ‘surprisingly lively’ - don’t forget the thing weighs next to nothing. That said, I’m sure it’s not going to be anything spectacular, but this is just an experimental model - it won’t go into production (although some of the lessons learned from it, if any, may turn up in ordinary production models in the future). Well, frankly, I find the fact that something so Ogdamned ugly can move at all surprising. They’d been better off updating Bucky Fuller’s [Dymaxion car](http://www.thirteen.org/bucky/car.html), which got mileage comparable to modern cars, could out run anything produced at the time, and seated 11. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/500mpg-car/297896.md?page=2)