# 51-50 **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 19, 2000, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/51-50/46277 "2000-12-19T03:01:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/51-50/46277/1 "2000-12-19T03:01:23Z")
What’s the origin of the phrase 51-50 meaning not all there? I would think 49-50 is more logical. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Crunch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@Chief\_Crunch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Crunch)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/51-50/46277/2 "2000-12-19T03:16:01Z")
I believe it’s a term used by professionals meaning a person is a danger to him or herself and and others. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/51-50/46277/3 "2000-12-19T03:18:18Z")
51-50? You’ve just described the new _ **United States Senate!!!** _ Tell me about “not all there!” ---
**Author:** ![Opus1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/858c86/32.png) [@Opus1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Opus1)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/51-50/46277/4 "2000-12-19T04:09:06Z")
It’s a police code. Like how 187=homicide. I vaguely recall that it means that a person is crazy, but _not_ crazier enough to be a danger to himself or others. But I’m far from certain on this second point. ---
**Author:** ![bernse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@bernse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bernse)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/51-50/46277/5 "2000-12-19T05:04:25Z")
Correct, police code. But I actually thought it meant crazy guy on the loose. Its also a Canadian band…pretty good one to I may add. ---
**Author:** ![douglips](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@douglips](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/douglips)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/51-50/46277/6 "2000-12-19T05:11:20Z")
From [California Welfare and Institutions Code, section 5150](http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=wic&group=05001-06000&file=5150-5157): > [@](#): > > 1. When any person, as a result of mental disorder, is a danger > to others, or to himself or herself, or gravely disabled, a peace > officer, member of the attending staff, as defined by regulation, of > an evaluation facility designated by the county, designated members > of a mobile crisis team provided by Section 5651.7, or other > professional person designated by the county may, upon probable > cause, take, or cause to be taken, the person into custody and place > him or her in a facility designated by the county and approved by the > State Department of Mental Health as a facility for 72-hour > treatment and evaluation. Basically it means they think he **is** potentially a danger, and that he is to be involuntarily held for 72 hour psychiatric evaluation. ---
**Author:** ![Montfort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/51-50/46277/7 "2000-12-19T05:44:27Z")
Van Halen’s studio is (was?) called 5150, which may have been a coincidental address, but it’s also the origin of the title of the first Van Hagar album. ---
**Author:** ![mojopitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@mojopitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mojopitch)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/51-50/46277/8 "2000-12-19T13:44:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Van Halen’s studio is (was?) called 5150, which may have been a coincidental address, but it’s also the origin of the title of the first Van Hagar album. This is not coincidental. For some reason Ed has a thing for being criminally insane. There are references to “5150” from the studio, the album, a few of his guitars, and even the video for “Hot For Teacher”. But what else would you expect from a guy who names his kid Wolfgang? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Derfel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bb73d2/32.png) [@Lord\_Derfel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Derfel)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/51-50/46277/9 "2000-12-19T16:09:34Z")
bernse: > [@](#): > > Its also a Canadian band…pretty good one to I may add. Do you mean 54-40? ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/51-50/46277/10 "2000-12-19T16:13:04Z")
As in “54’ 40” or fight"? I thought we had patched that ugly little incident up a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/51-50/46277/11 "2000-12-19T18:17:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mojopitch \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Van Halen’s studio is (was?) called 5150, which may have been a coincidental address, but it’s also the origin of the title of the first Van Hagar album. > > This is not coincidental. For some reason Ed has a thing for being criminally insane. There are references to “5150” from the studio, the album, a few of his guitars, and even the video for “Hot For Teacher”. But what else would you expect from a guy who names his kid Wolfgang? \*\* Don’t forget the Ed-endorsed 5150 amplifier made by Peavey. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2000, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/51-50/46277/12 "2000-12-19T21:57:44Z")
Thanks to all who responded, esp. Douglips, who gave me the exact etymology of the term. I heard it in reference to that crazed 19-year old who was killed by fellow passengers after he acted crazy on the plane. A guy said he was 5150 and another passenger said that he must either be a cop or a journalist, as they are the only ones who know what that meant. ---
**Author:** ![bernse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@bernse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bernse)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/51-50/46277/13 "2000-12-20T00:36:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lord Derfel \* > \*\*bernse: > > > [@](#): > > > > Its also a Canadian band…pretty good one to I may add. > > Do you mean 54-40? \*\* Ummmm… yeah [hides under desk] ---
**Author:** ![Fat\_Charlie\_the\_Archangel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7ea924/32.png) [@Fat\_Charlie\_the\_Archangel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fat_Charlie_the_Archangel)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/51-50/46277/14 "2000-12-20T01:43:41Z")
So what is the 54-40 thing, then? ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/51-50/46277/15 "2000-12-20T02:26:01Z")
That had to do with latitude 54 degrees 40 minutes north (around Vancouver-BC) in a dispute with Canada last century. (At least, it was the last century now, but it won’t be in two weeks.) One of our Canadian dopers can fill you in the details I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/51-50/46277/16 "2000-12-20T02:52:30Z")
To add to **barbitu8** ’s post, IIRC some people in the U.S. decided that the U.S. should extend up the west coast to 54º 40’. “Fifty-four forty, or fight” was a rallying cry saying, in effect, “Give us this land or we’ll kill you!” The dispute was settled peacefully. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/51-50/46277/17 "2000-12-20T05:18:29Z")
54[sup]o[/sup] 40’ N is the latitude of the southern border of Alaska, far north of Vancouver BC. This refers to the resolution of the Oregon Country land dispute in the 1840s. Originally, Spain (this was before Mexico was independent), Russia, Great Britain (Canada was also not independent) and the United States all claimed the Oregon Country. At the time, it was an ill-defined area in the northwest. A treaty with Spain limited their claims to land south of 42[sup]o[/sup] N, which is the northern border of California. Similarly, a treaty with Russia limited their claims to the coast north of 54[sup]o[/sup] 40’ N. That left the US and GB to contest the area in the middle. Along came the election of 1844. Polk campaigned on a platform of territorial expansion, with the slogan “Fifty-four forty or fight” meaning that he would go to war to get the entire Oregon Country. He got elected but settled the dispute by treaty. So instead we picked a fight with Mexico. No doubt that was a better move, considering the relative strengths of the Mexican and British armies and navies. On the other hand, we didn’t have a chance to burn down the Parliament building in Toronto again. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2000, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/51-50/46277/18 "2000-12-20T21:47:45Z")
Well, that’s right. It’s been a long time since I read any history about that. Nonetheless, Vancouver, BC comes to mind and I’m virtually certain that that was the line agreed upon as the boundary line between the US & GB. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2000, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/51-50/46277/19 "2000-12-21T09:29:09Z")
Vancouver BC wasn’t founded until after the treaty between the US and Great Britain. That settled the border where it is now, the 49th` parallel except that all of Vancouver Island was owned by the British. The Hudson’s Bay headquarters in the Oregon Country was at Fort Vancouver, which is now known as Vancouver, Washington. After the treaty, they moved their HQ to the Frasier River and called the new place Vancouver as well.