# 520 murders? Fine. 521 murders? Disgusting! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 14, 2003, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/520-murders-fine-521-murders-disgusting/213253 "2003-11-14T15:43:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/520-murders-fine-521-murders-disgusting/213253/61 "2003-11-15T18:01:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by thirdwarning \* > Anyway, as I said, why does it matter to you? Unless you’re insisting that everybody has to share your taste in entertainment. > > And I know this thread sounds pretty cranky, but it’s really not being “said” in that tone of voice. Try to imagine it down a couple of decibel levels. Taken with the decibel level turned down … 😉 It doesn’t matter to me. As I said in the OP, I’m not ranting, I just found it bizarre that they decided to leave at that point, when, IMO, all the truly vile and disgusting things had long since happened. Obviously, there is a personal “violence quotient” - I merely think (and still do), that the couple’s quotient was, how to say, outside the norm. If you are the type to be appalled at the type of violence prevelant in “Kill Bill,” I have no problem with that whatsoever. I’m just thinking that the average person who is going to storm out of that flick would do so loooooong before the final (cartoonish) fight scene. Sua ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/520-murders-fine-521-murders-disgusting/213253/62 "2003-11-15T18:21:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by avabeth \* > \*\*My roomie and I went to see South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut in the theatres right after it came out. About one minute into “Uncle Fucker”, he and I were practically rolling on the floor in tears from laughing so hard, and three couples had gotten up and walked out. We looked at each other and said “Did they not THINK South Park would be vulgar?”. I mean, holy shit. Do some fucking research, people. > > Even better was the woman bitching to the poor kid behind the ticket window about how he had sold her and her small child tickets to a PORNOGRAPHIC CARTOON! I don’t think she got her money back. > > Ava \*\* For FUCKS SAKE, It’s a rated R movie! ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/520-murders-fine-521-murders-disgusting/213253/63 "2003-11-15T19:30:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SuaSponte \* > **The opening scene, where an eight months’ pregnant woman is shot in the head wasn’t “disgusting”? The woman being killed in front of her four year old daughter wasn’t “disgusting”? The animation with the pedophile being killed while having sex with an 11 year old wasn’t enough to put you over the edge? The repeated rapes of a comatose woman didn’t get you to walk out?** While I agree completely that the old couple in the OP were pretty stupid, I have to thank **Sua** for helping me decide whether or not to see _Kill Bill_ in the theatre. See, I loved _Reservoir Dogs_, disliked _Pulp Fiction_, and thought _Jackie Brown_ was just sort of tiresome (and yes, I “got” the idea of the film… just didn’t enjoy it). The reviews of _Kill Bill_ haven’t helped me decide whether or not to see it yet. However, if **Sua** ’s description above of the film is accurate, my decision is made. If I see _Kill Bill_ at all, it will probably be on video or on cable. I suddenly feel absolutely no desire to see it in the theatres, perhaps not at all. So, a word of thanks to **Sua** for helping me decide. Thanks for the Straight Dope, man. ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/520-murders-fine-521-murders-disgusting/213253/64 "2003-11-16T03:12:01Z")
Are there still seats left in the shithead section? Anyway, yeah–if someone’s going to bail, the first third or so of the movie is likely where it’ll happen. I went to see the film with a friend who was trying to evaluate whether his wife would stomach it–he came to the conclusion that she’d be fine come DVD, if starting right after “The Origin of Oren Ishii” anime bit, when the flick really kicks into cartoonish high gear. ---
**Author:** ![crazy\_grady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dbc845/32.png) [@crazy\_grady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazy_grady)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/520-murders-fine-521-murders-disgusting/213253/65 "2003-11-17T01:40:18Z")
Guess what, “Kill Bill” was disguisting. Violent, gory, bloody. The story was weak, the plot was poor. Uma killing all those Yakuza (Japanese gangsters) was something out of the Matrix. I wish the film was not that damned violent. I wanted something in the genre of a good Hong Kong fight movie. HK fight movies are the topps, especially with the young Jackie Chan in them But, the movie did have Uma in it, and except for those size 12 feet, she is a babe and a 1/2. Same with Lucy Liu, and that young teenage Japanese girl. (As a side note, for those of you who have lived in the Far East, Chinese and Japanese people have diffferent facial features, Liu looks very, very Chinese, high cheeckbones, smaller eyes, “cute”, while schoolgirl has less cheekbones, larger eyes, taller, and a “beauty”). Jackie Brown was better and of course pulp iction was Tarentino’s best movie. QT does concept movies, off the wall stuff. I’d like to lock QT, Paul Thomas Anderson and the Coens in a small room with a word processor, an make them write a movie. Lastly, my favorite line came from that greasy asshole hospital intern rapist that Uma killed by nailing his head through the door, “My name is Chuck, and I am here to fuck.” And I loved Chuck’s ride …“The Pussy Wagon”. Something tells me that QT does a lot of drugs. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/520-murders-fine-521-murders-disgusting/213253/66 "2003-11-17T02:45:04Z")
Boy, I wanted to be a shithead before I read this thread, but now I want to be one more than ever! ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/520-murders-fine-521-murders-disgusting/213253/67 "2003-11-17T03:46:59Z")
Well, I must be one helluva shithead since Q.T is one of my all-time favorite directors. I will wear my shitheadness with pride. Is anyone handing out toasters? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/520-murders-fine-521-murders-disgusting/213253/68 "2003-11-17T15:09:45Z")
Psst, **grady** … the orderly (I’m assuming he’s too scummy to be an intern) was named _Buck_ (and he’s here to fuck). ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/520-murders-fine-521-murders-disgusting/213253/69 "2003-11-17T16:26:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mikahw \* > \*\*Then again, there was the big fat **R** next to the movie’s title on the marquee. R is quite a wide category, though. \*\* I’m not sure about your newspaper, but ours will even include: “Rated R for strong, bloody violence, language and some sexual content.” So if they weren’t expecting just a wee bit o’ brutality… **Ben Hicks** _cough Avengers cough_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/520-murders-fine-521-murders-disgusting/213253/70 "2003-11-17T16:34:12Z")
Eh, I don’t think **LosingPissant** ’s coming back. Which is fine with me: Anyone who would condemn people simply because they enjoy certain kinds of art is contemptible beyond words. ---
**Author:** ![stick\_monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@stick\_monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stick_monkey)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/520-murders-fine-521-murders-disgusting/213253/71 "2003-11-17T17:49:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes, anyone who likes this film is pretty much a shithead. Anyone who actually defends this film as “art” is a colossal shithead. And anyone who thinks that it’s “just a matter of taste” is contemptible beyond words. I’d like two tickets to “pretty much a shithead”, a “colossal shithead”, and “contemptable beyond words”, please. This film was a highly styalized portrayal of several different genres and sub genres. Yes, it probably took a lot of pot to write, but that doesn’t make it any less artistic than the opium derived nightmare prose of poe, or the insanity driven paintings of van gogh. And man did I say, “dude this rocks” and “holy shit” and “they aren’t gonna…oh crap they did” a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/520-murders-fine-521-murders-disgusting/213253/72 "2003-11-18T03:41:43Z")
This thread reminded me of a similar one from this past summer. In that case, Kevin Smith was the director being reviled. Allow me to quote the honorable **Merijeek** : > [@](#): > > Ah…the Internet. > > If you don’t like what I like, you’re wrong and I’m right. You must be retarded. > > Kids - just because you don’t like something doesn’t make it retarded. It doesn’t make it stupid. It doesn’t make it worthless. It makes it…SOMETHING YOU DON’T LIKE. ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/520-murders-fine-521-murders-disgusting/213253/73 "2003-11-18T04:33:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cervaise \* > **"Warning: Do not attempt to remove my head from my ass," while keeping a head-in-ass-defending Rottweiler handy on a short leash.** Wow! I always knew that **handy** was an idiot btu now I learn that he’s a head-in-ass-defending Rottweiler too! Live and learn I always say… ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/520-murders-fine-521-murders-disgusting/213253/74 "2003-11-18T06:42:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes, anyone who likes this film is pretty much a shithead. Anyone who actually defends this film as “art” is a colossal shithead. I guess I’m a collosal shithead, and you’re scum. A pleasure to meet you. ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/520-murders-fine-521-murders-disgusting/213253/75 "2003-11-18T07:08:53Z")
Avalonian: > [@](#): > > However, if Sua’s description above of the film is accurate, my decision is made. If I see Kill Bill at all, it will probably be on video or on cable. I suddenly feel absolutely no desire to see it in the theatres, perhaps not at all. It’s accurate, except possibly the part about the pedophile. I’ve only seen it once, but I have a very clear memory of the little girl simply killing him, not having sex with him. Am I wrong? ---
**Author:** ![KJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b2d939/32.png) [@KJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KJ)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/520-murders-fine-521-murders-disgusting/213253/76 "2003-11-18T08:33:51Z")
Count me in as another shithead defending the movie for its artistic value. (By the way, this post contains what might be considered spoilers. Skip it if you don’t want anything ruined.) I liked the movie. As far as Saturday evening action flicks go, it’s hard to top Kill Bill. But would it be considered a piece of art? I say “Yes.” Maybe it just has to do with the mindset I was in when I saw the movie. I had just gotten out of an art class, and my art instructor was giving a lecture about Aristotle’s Poetics of Tragedy and how it applies to modern art. A big portion of the lecture was about the concept of “Logos” or “internal logic.” The way he put it, it made a lot of sense: There are certain things a director (or any artist) can do to draw the audience into a story, and certain things that make it unbelievable. Bad special effects are a classic example of (for lack of a better term) “bad logos.” By that, I mean anything that makes you aware that you are in the audience watching the movie, and not, in fact, in the action yourself. (My art teacher had a brilliant observation about the topic: “How sad is it that when we watch The Matrix, it’s easier for us to believe that Keanu Reeves can fly than it is for us to believe that that he can talk.”) The term “suspension of disbelief” is often used in this context, where my art instructor called it Logos. I was keeping this idea of “distancing effects” in mind when I was watching the movie, and Tarantino definitely knows what he’s doing in that department. Think about it…yes, it’s full of senseless killings, and you don’t identify with most of the characters (especially the hordes of people getting killed) but you should ask yourself _why_…in the first segment of the movie, _one person_ dies. But the way she dies makes you feel very sad, or at least a little uneasy about the way the movie is going. But then at the end of the movie, you’re seeing one person die every 4 seconds. And why don’t you feel the same compassion for all the people who are dying? Because Tarantino purposefully uses distancing effects to remove you from the characters and dehumanize them. Blood gushes from amputated limbs, and the Bride is able to take out 3 people with one stroke of her Samurai sword. There’s one scene in particular in which I was paying special attention to the use of distancing effects: During the “blue room fight” all you see are the silhouettes of the fighters. You don’t feel any compassion for the characters whatsoever. But that’s what Tarantino _wants_ you to feel: They’re distanced from the audience, and they’ve been completely dehumanized and objectified. Then there are a few seconds when a light shines in and the Bride gets a look at the faces of her enemies, and she just stands there for a few seconds, seemingly contemplating what she’s doing and questioning whether or not she should be killing everybody. Then it goes dark again and she keeps fighting. Okay, maybe I’m reading too much into the movie. Maybe Quentin Tarantino just likes anime and wants to see people get their heads cut off. (By the way, the first decapitation scene is one of the funniest movie moments I’ve seen in a long time.) Either way, you can call me a shithead, because I liked the movie. _Ahem_ back on topic, though, I think it’s stupid to complain about the content of a movie that’s rated R. Especially the South Park movie…what the hell is going through your head if you see the South Park movie (Clearly titled “Bigger, Longer & _Uncut_”) and expect it to be anything other than South Park? ---
**Author:** ![hyperjes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df705f/32.png) [@hyperjes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hyperjes)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/520-murders-fine-521-murders-disgusting/213253/77 "2003-11-18T09:24:35Z")
I don’t have anything to say about _Kill Bill_ yet, because I haven’t seen it. Both **d\_redguy** and **gmarkstephens** have been pestering me about it, so I was considering doing so in the next few days. This brings me to my point- I almost always enjoy QT films. I don’t particularly mind violent movies. But I generally draw the line at violence involving children. I’m not saying anyone else shouldn’t watch such things, nor am I calling anyone a shithead for doing so. I’m just wondering how much children+violence is involved in _Kill Bill_. Trying to avoid spending any cash on something I won’t enjoy, you know? Anybody wanna help me out here? How on-the-nose _was_ the OP, really? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Mellon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e19adc/32.png) [@Mellon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellon)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/520-murders-fine-521-murders-disgusting/213253/78 "2003-11-18T11:58:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hyperjes \* > **I’m just wondering how much children+violence is involved in _Kill Bill_. Trying to avoid spending any cash on something I won’t enjoy, you know? Anybody wanna help me out here?** The only violence directly involving children is the animated sequence in the middle. It is animated because it involves a child. In an interview (sorry, no cite as I saw it on tv) QT said that it had to be animated as he could not subject a child to making that particular scene. Oh, add me to the list of shitheads. ---
**Author:** ![Eternal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@Eternal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eternal)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/520-murders-fine-521-murders-disgusting/213253/79 "2003-11-18T12:18:41Z")
Anybody who ironically states they’re proud to be on a list of shitheads is a… tool. ---
**Author:** ![Mikahw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Mikahw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikahw)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/520-murders-fine-521-murders-disgusting/213253/80 "2003-11-18T12:46:56Z")
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