# 53 bicycles: A lateral thinking puzzle **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [July 9, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868 "2017-07-09T19:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/261 "2017-07-14T14:39:58Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > Here’s an original: > > I live about five miles (as the crow flies) from [Wintergreen, Virginia](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.virginia.org/cities/Wintergreen&ved=0ahUKEwiFq6Lx7ofVAhXJND4KHQiqDGYQFgieATAX&usg=AFQjCNG_SiabKgGahW7z8iqv8sOlSXHvlA). The town is little more than a resort. It’s a place for skiing in the winter and hiking in the summer. It’s got golf, vacation rentals, and lots of pretty views. It also has something in common with just a very few other towns/cities in the United States. This common factor is shared by Johnstown, Pennsylvania, as well as Omaha, Nebraska and Spokane, Washington. There are a few others as well. > > One city that does not share the common factor is Miami, Florida. But here’s the thing: \* If Wintergreen, Virginia didn’t have the common factor, then Miami, Florida would!\* > > What is the common factor? A WAG, but Wintergreen, Virginia shares the vowels “a” and “e” with other named cities, but not Miami. If Wintergreen didn’t have that common factor, then Miami would have it by sharing “a” and “o”. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/262 "2017-07-14T14:40:58Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > Could something happen today that would make Wintergreen invalid but Miami valid? No. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/263 "2017-07-14T14:42:45Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > A WAG, but Wintergreen, Virginia shares the vowels “a” and “e” with other named cities, but not Miami. If Wintergreen didn’t have that common factor, then Miami would have it by sharing “a” and “o”. No. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/264 "2017-07-14T14:45:45Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Is it a picture of Wintergreen? (Heh heh) No. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/265 "2017-07-14T14:48:26Z")
If you were to tell us the criteria right now, would a reasonable American (“the man on the Brooklyn omnibus”:)) be able to figure out whether Wintergreen or Miami was valid without needing to look up information he wouldn’t know? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/266 "2017-07-14T15:04:42Z")
Does the common factor relate to anything at all other than names? If yes, does the common factor relate to any property of the cities on the list themselves? If a person had exhaustive knowledge of any single city, but no knowledge at all of other cities, would that person be able to determine if that single city should be on the list? If a person had exhaustive knowledge both of a single city, and exhaustive knowledge of some other set of cities, but had some nonempty set of cities of which he had no knowledge, would that person be able to determine if that single city should be on the list? Is “…in the United States” explicitly part of the criteria for being on this list? Absent any specific criteria to that effect, or with it being replaced by the name of another country, is it possible for a city in any other country to be on this list, or one directly analogous to it? Is it possible specifically for a city in England? Germany? Greece? Israel? China? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/267 "2017-07-14T15:07:05Z")
Have these places hosted some event; and in the year that Wintergreen hosted it, Miami was the runner-up choice? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/268 "2017-07-14T15:07:39Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > If you were to tell us the criteria right now, would a reasonable American (“the man on the Brooklyn omnibus”:)) be able to figure out whether Wintergreen or Miami was valid without needing to look up information he wouldn’t know? No. Probably not. Depends on who you asked. I hope the man would agree that the lateral thinking riddle was still fair and solvable without using google. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/269 "2017-07-14T15:11:36Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > …I hope the man would agree that the lateral thinking riddle was still fair and solvable without using google. Do you mean it’s solvable for the average person even without asking you questions? Or are you saying just questions, no google (which I thought was pretty much the ground rules for these)? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/270 "2017-07-14T15:14:26Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Have these places hosted some event; and in the year that Wintergreen hosted it, Miami was the runner-up choice? ETA this makes no sense - you told us that it’s connected to the _name_ of the place, right? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/271 "2017-07-14T15:20:02Z")
Would a Wintergreen, Ohio and a Miami. Kentucky (or any other state) have the same statuses? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/272 "2017-07-14T15:24:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Does the common factor relate to anything at all other than names? > If yes, does the common factor relate to any property of the cities on the list themselves? > If a person had exhaustive knowledge of any single city, but no knowledge at all of other cities, would that person be able to determine if that single city should be on the list? > If a person had exhaustive knowledge both of a single city, and exhaustive knowledge of some other set of cities, but had some nonempty set of cities of which he had no knowledge, would that person be able to determine if that single city should be on the list? > Is “…in the United States” explicitly part of the criteria for being on this list? > Absent any specific criteria to that effect, or with it being replaced by the name of another country, is it possible for a city in any other country to be on this list, or one directly analogous to it? > Is it possible specifically for a city in England? Germany? Greece? Israel? China? Lots of questions… 1. No. The names themselves put the cities on the list. 2. No. See #1. No physical property of the city itself matters. 3. Yes. Knowledge of whether a city is on the list is not dependent of other cities. 4. Yes. Exhaustive knowledge of the city itself is irrelevant. 5. No. The U.S. part is not required. 6 +7. Yes., theoretically any city anywhere could make the list. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/273 "2017-07-14T15:25:44Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Have these places hosted some event; and in the year that Wintergreen hosted it, Miami was the runner-up choice? No. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/274 "2017-07-14T15:28:18Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > Would a Wintergreen, Ohio and a Miami. Kentucky (or any other state) have the same statuses? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/275 "2017-07-14T15:38:28Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Do you mean it’s solvable for the average person even without asking you questions? > Or are you saying just questions, no google (which I thought was pretty much the ground rules for these)? No. Most people would probably not be able to get it without asking some questions. I actually sent an email to the Wintergreen resort last night and posed to them the riddle. They will probably think it is Spam or think WTF and hit “DELETE.” But maybe I will get lucky and the person in charge of reading their e-mails is a fellow puzzle lover! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/276 "2017-07-14T15:44:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Biotop** : > > 6 +7. Yes., theoretically any city anywhere could make the list. To clarify, the written language of Israel does not have letters for vowels, and the written language of China does not have letters at all. Does this answer still stand? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/277 "2017-07-14T15:51:36Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Really? If that’s the case I apologize for my reaction. But I have never heard of such a thing. It seems ridiculous to me. If were going for a stroll with a blind friend I would walk alongside them and talk to them, just like any other friend, with an occasional word of guidance about what’s ahead. I went to the National Federation of the Blind convention about 18 years ago. I was there as a Deaf-blind interpreter. There were hundreds of blind people-- maybe thousands. There were people with canes, people with all breeds of dogs (but mostly Retrievers), and people with sighted guides whose arms they held. I did not observe one person being led by a bell. FWIW, I did not see one person using the “clicker” method either, and I think that pretty much just happens on TV. I did see some small children with bells on them-- they were children with blind parents. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/278 "2017-07-14T16:02:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > To clarify, the written language of Israel does not have letters for vowels, and the written language of China does not have letters at all. Does this answer still stand? Not probable to happen I grant you. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/279 "2017-07-14T16:10:07Z")
Is the significance of the name related in any way to some “technical” aspect of the way the name is written/spelled, such as the combination or pattern of letters? Or does the combination of letters _per se_ not matter? Does the name for each town also apply to someone/something else? Is the manner in which the name for the town arose or was chosen significant? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/280 "2017-07-14T16:20:56Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Is the significance of the name related in any way to some “technical” aspect of the way the name is written/spelled, such as the combination or pattern of letters? > > Or does the combination of letters _per se_ not matter? > Does the name for each town also apply to someone/something else? > Is the manner in which the name for the town arose or was chosen significant? No to “technical” Yes. The letter combination does NOT matter Yes to name applying elsewhere No to the manner in which the town name arose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868.md?page=15)