# 53 bicycles: A lateral thinking puzzle **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [July 9, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868 "2017-07-09T19:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 170
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/3382 "2018-09-15T15:58:48Z")
Did the small business find out the lie was the truth, after the non-lie was told? Did the owners of the small business always know the lie was the truth? Is the oil company’s motivation relevant to solving the puzzle? Did the oil company’s motivation concern the stock price of the company? Did it concern **any** stock price? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/3383 "2018-09-15T16:16:05Z")
**reply to j666** : (with additional explanation on a couple of answers because I don’t know how to fairly answer otherwise) Did the small business find out the lie was the truth, after the non-lie was told? **No. They always thought the non-lie was the truth.** Did the owners of the small business always know the lie was the truth? **They thought the lie was the truth.** Is the oil company’s motivation relevant to solving the puzzle? **It is a possible inroad to the truth.** Did the oil company’s motivation concern the stock price of the company? **No** Did it concern **any** stock price? **No** ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/3384 "2018-09-15T16:42:18Z")
**Clarification** : The small business people thought the lie was true. It wasn’t a case of them finding out the lie was true. They encountered the report and naturally assumed that the report was truthful and never thought otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/3385 "2018-09-15T17:19:35Z")
Did the lie involve whether it was possible to travel across the land or transport something across the land in a particular way? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/3386 "2018-09-15T17:21:49Z")
**reply to SpoilerVirgin** : Did the lie involve whether it was possible to travel across the land or transport something across the land in a particular way? **No** ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/3387 "2018-09-15T17:28:15Z")
Did the lie involve a particular law - that something was or was not legal? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/3388 "2018-09-15T17:38:52Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Did the lie involve a particular law - that something was or was not legal? \*\* Yes and No\*\*\* \*Define “involve.” ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/3389 "2018-09-15T17:45:16Z")
Was the lie that some particular action (or not taking some action) would be legal? Was the lie that some particular action (or not taking some action) would be illegal? Was the lie that some particular action (or not taking some action) would result in a civil lawsuit? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/3390 "2018-09-15T17:49:20Z")
**reply to SpoilerVirgin** Was the lie that some particular action (or not taking some action) would be legal? Was the lie that some particular action (or not taking some action) would be illegal? Was the lie that some particular action (or not taking some action) would result in a civil lawsuit? **No to all.** I am going to work now, so further responses will not be immediate. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/3391 "2018-09-15T17:52:25Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > Is that the incident occurred in the 1930s critical to solving the puzzle? \*\*No, not the specific decade. But knowing that it happened in that part of the 20th century is helpful in understanding how what happened could have happened. \*\* “… how what happened could have happened.” But what did happen? The oil company commissioned an unnecessarily fraudulent report … If the fraud was not necessary, the oil company either did not know or was mistaken about some fact … And none of this involved (a) natural resource(s), including oil. Those are ruminations, not questions. Was the transportation infrastructure of the time relevant to the incident? Was the communication infrastructure of the time relevant? Did the general store owners all ready own their land when the report was published? ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/3392 "2018-09-15T22:50:43Z")
I’m really curious about this answer, and would like to follow up. > [@](#): > > Would the oil company profit from anyone believing the lie at all? No Can you confirm that the oil company expected no monetary gain from the lie? Did Otto and Ernest expect any monetary gain from the lie? Did the oil company expect to gain in prestige or reputation from the lie? Did Otto and Ernest expect to gain in prestige or reputation from the lie? Did the oil company expect some other non-monetary benefit from the lie? Did Otto and Ernest expect some other non-monetary benefit from the lie? Was the motive that Otto and Ernest had for the lie substantially different from that of the oil company? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/3393 "2018-09-16T01:55:38Z")
**reply to j666** : Was the transportation infrastructure of the time relevant to the incident? **Yes. But only marginally.** Was the communication infrastructure of the time relevant? **Again, marginally. Thought this incident could happen today, it would play out differently because the transportation infrastructure and especially the communication structure are very different from the 1930’s.** Did the general store owners all ready own their land when the report was published? \*\*No \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/3394 "2018-09-16T02:03:16Z")
\*\*reply to SppilerVirgin \*\* I’m really curious about this answer, and would like to follow up. Can you confirm that the oil company expected no monetary gain from the lie? **The oil company did not expect monetary gain from the lie.** Did Otto and Ernest expect any monetary gain from the lie? \*\*No \*\* Did the oil company expect to gain in prestige or reputation from the lie? \*\*No \*\* Did Otto and Ernest expect to gain in prestige or reputation from the lie? \*\*No \*\* Did the oil company expect some other non-monetary benefit from the lie? **No. I don’t think so.** Did Otto and Ernest expect some other non-monetary benefit from the lie? \*\*Yes. \*\* Was the motive that Otto and Ernest had for the lie substantially different from that of the oil company?\*\* Not sure. It depends on the legal relationship between the oil company and the two men. It’s possible the oil company got the same benefit. I am not sure.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/3395 "2018-09-16T02:20:50Z")
Is the type of job of Otto and Ernest had highly relevant in your opinion? Is the job they had still a job for people today? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/3396 "2018-09-16T03:19:03Z")
**reply to Mahaloth** : Is the type of job of Otto and Ernest had highly relevant in your opinion? \*\*Yes \*\* Is the job they had still a job for people today? \*\*Yes \*\* ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/3397 "2018-09-16T03:33:47Z")
Is the land in question located in a city? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/3398 "2018-09-16T04:35:23Z")
> [@j666](#): > > Is the land in question located in a city? **A large metropolitan area? No** ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/3399 "2018-09-16T06:23:21Z")
After reading around at least some sources indicate that the oil company enjoyed the non-monetary benefit of the lie. And I must offer one other correction. While the lie was spread by Ernest and Otto (with the backing of the oil company) in the 1930’s, the lie was not discovered (as described in the original problem) until the 1950’s. **Biotop** regrets the error. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/3400 "2018-09-16T11:56:27Z")
Were Ernst & Otto surveyors? Geologists? Botanists? Civil engineers? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/3401 "2018-09-16T13:37:13Z")
**reply to j666** Were Ernst & Otto surveyors? **No** Geologists? **No** Botanists? **No** Civil engineers? **No** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868.md?page=169) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868.md?page=171)