# 53 bicycles: A lateral thinking puzzle **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [July 9, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868 "2017-07-09T19:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/921 "2017-08-11T21:20:39Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > I had to wear a heart monitor for about a month, so I have actual experience. šŸ™‚ Consider the story a warning, then! šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/922 "2017-08-12T13:51:47Z")
Jarl Torradsson challenged Jarl Vesteinsson to a fight to settle their differences. They agreed to 40 men to a side, but Torradsson treacherously brought 80 men and destroyed his opponent. But, even though Torradsson killed Vesteinsson, history actually records that Vesteinsson also killed Torradsson. How is this? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/923 "2017-08-12T14:59:44Z")
Was there more than one man called Torradsson ? Was there more than one man called Vesteinsson ? Are Vesteinsson and Torradsson the same person? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/924 "2017-08-12T15:09:47Z")
Did Torradsson personally slay Vesteinsson? Did Vesteinsson personally slay Torradsson? Was either man mortally wounded but able to continue fighting for some time afterwards? For what itā€™s worth, by the way, Iā€™m pretty sure that ā€œJarlā€ is a title, not a name, meaning something like ā€œChiefā€. So itā€™s no surprise that both men were called ā€œJarlā€. Actually, let me confirm that: Is ā€œJarlā€ actually a title rather than a name? Is that fact significant? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/925 "2017-08-12T15:13:21Z")
Were the ā€œMenā€ actually humans? (as opposed to, for example, chessmen) ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/926 "2017-08-12T15:40:09Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Was there more than one man called Torradsson ? > > Was there more than one man called Vesteinsson ? > > Are Vesteinsson and Torradsson the same person? 1. No. (not in this story, anyway). šŸ™‚ 2. No. (not in this story, anyway). 3. No. > [@Chronos](#): > > 1. Did Torradsson personally slay Vesteinsson? > 2. Did Vesteinsson personally slay Torradsson? > 3. Was either man mortally wounded but able to continue fighting for some time afterwards? > > For what itā€™s worth, by the way, Iā€™m pretty sure that ā€œJarlā€ is a title, not a name, meaning something like ā€œChiefā€. So itā€™s no surprise that both men were called ā€œJarlā€. > > Actually, let me confirm that: > 4. Is ā€œJarlā€ actually a title rather than a name? > 5. Is that fact significant? 1. Yes. 2. Yes and no.\* 3. No. 4. Yes. 5. No. - Crappy answer, I know, but I think that is the best answer to give. > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Were the ā€œMenā€ actually humans? > > (as opposed to, for example, chessmen) Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/927 "2017-08-12T17:12:11Z")
1. Was the melee fought with actual weapons? 2. If so, were they hand-held? 3. If not, were they projectile weapons? 4. Was Torradssonā€™s death accidental? 5. Did Torradssonā€™s death occur some time after the battle? 6. If so, was it due to complications from being attacked by Vesteinsson? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/928 "2017-08-13T00:25:26Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > 1. Was the melee fought with actual weapons? > 2. If so, were they hand-held? > 3. If not, were they projectile weapons? > 4. Was Torradssonā€™s death accidental? > 5. Did Torradssonā€™s death occur some time after the battle? > 6. If so, was it due to complications from being attacked by Vesteinsson? 1. Yes. 2. Yes. 3. Projectiles may have been used as well. 4. Yes. 5. Yes. 6. No. This question needed to be simpler for me to feel comfortable with my answer. I could go ā€œkind ofā€ on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/929 "2017-08-13T02:34:36Z")
By the standards of modern, first-world law, and assuming that all relevant facts were known, would Tā€™s death have been considered murder? By the standards of modern, first-world law, and assuming that all relevant facts were known, would V have been considered guilty of murdering T? Was Tā€™s death after the death of V? Was Tā€™s death after the conclusion of the battle? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/930 "2017-08-13T02:37:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > 1. By the standards of modern, first-world law, and assuming that all relevant facts were known, would Tā€™s death have been considered murder? > 2. By the standards of modern, first-world law, and assuming that all relevant facts were known, would V have been considered guilty of murdering T? > 3. Was Tā€™s death after the death of V? > 4. Was Tā€™s death after the conclusion of the battle? 1. No. 2. No. 3. Yes. 4. Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/931 "2017-08-13T04:04:54Z")
Did a piece of Vā€™s weapon break off? If so, did it wind up in Tā€™s body? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/932 "2017-08-13T04:05:49Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Did a piece of Vā€™s weapon break off? > If so, did it wind up in Tā€™s body? 1. No. 2. No. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/933 "2017-08-13T04:11:38Z")
Did a wound given by V to T prove to be fatal later? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/934 "2017-08-13T11:26:22Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Did a wound given by V to T prove to be fatal later? Yes, but this is not enough to solve it. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/935 "2017-08-13T12:00:54Z")
Was it poison? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/936 "2017-08-13T12:04:16Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Was it poison? No. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/937 "2017-08-13T12:11:49Z")
Is Tā€™s wound physical? Did Tā€™s wound get infected? Was V intending to kill T when he gave that wound? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/938 "2017-08-13T12:23:12Z")
Was Tā€™s death more than 1 day after the battle? Was Tā€™s death more than 1 week after the battle? Was Tā€™s death more than 1 month after the battle? Was Tā€™s death more than 6 months after the battle? Was Tā€™s death more than 1 year after the battle? Was Tā€™s death more than 3 years after the battle? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/939 "2017-08-13T12:43:59Z")
Did T lose a limb or his eyesight in the battle, and then later, die as a result of the missing limb (not an infection, but by not being able to do something), or walking into a hole, or some other hazard he would have seen? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/940 "2017-08-13T17:23:36Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > 1. Is Tā€™s wound physical? > 2. Did Tā€™s wound get infected? > 3. Was V intending to kill T when he gave that wound? 1. Yes. 2. Yes. 3. No. > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Was Tā€™s death more than 1 day after the battle? > > Was Tā€™s death more than 1 week after the battle? > > Was Tā€™s death more than 1 month after the battle? > > Was Tā€™s death more than 6 months after the battle? > > Was Tā€™s death more than 1 year after the battle? > > Was Tā€™s death more than 3 years after the battle? Between 1 week and 1 month, Iā€™d say. > [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Did T lose a limb or his eyesight in the battle, and then later, die as a result of the missing limb (not an infection, but by not being able to do something), or walking into a hole, or some other hazard he would have seen? No. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868.md?page=48)