# 53 bicycles: A lateral thinking puzzle **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [July 9, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868 "2017-07-09T19:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 72
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/1421 "2017-09-17T23:19:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Were the mother’s religious/spiritual beliefs relevant? NO > Were the father’s religious/spiritual beliefs relevant? NO > Were the daughter’s religious/spiritual beliefs relevant? YES > Were the religious/spiritual beliefs of any other person relevant? NO > Was any sort of belief concerning what happens to a person after death relevant? YES - I THINK SO > Was any sort of belief concerning the purpose of life relevant? NO Embedded answers. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/1422 "2017-09-18T00:11:26Z")
Did somebody close to the family die before this? If so, did Mommy Dearest arrange for dad to meet them? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/1423 "2017-09-18T00:48:58Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Did somebody close to the family die before this? > If so, did Mommy Dearest arrange for dad to meet them? No. No. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/1424 "2017-09-18T01:06:43Z")
Did the daughter believe that the father’s status would be better for him in some way after his death? Did the daughter believe that the father would go on to existence in some other plane of being (Heaven, Valhalla, Elysium, etc.)? Did the daughter believe that the father would be reincarnated? Did the daughter believe that the father would achieve nonexistence? Did the daughter believe that the father would attain oneness with creation? Did the daughter believe that the father would continue bodily in this world (as a vampire, zombie, ghoul, etc.)? Did the daughter believe that the father would continue incoporeally but in this world (as a ghost, shadow, psychic imprint, etc.)? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/1425 "2017-09-18T01:16:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Did the daughter believe that the father’s status would be better for him in some way after his death? NO > > Did the daughter believe that the father would go on to existence in some other plane of being (Heaven, Valhalla, Elysium, etc.)? POSSIBLY, BUT IRRELEVANT(LET’S SAY “MAYBE”) > > Did the daughter believe that the father would be reincarnated? NO > > Did the daughter believe that the father would achieve nonexistence? POSSIBLY, BUT IRRELEVANT(“MAYBE” AGAIN) > > Did the daughter believe that the father would attain oneness with creation? NO > > Did the daughter believe that the father would continue bodily in this world (as a vampire, zombie, ghoul, etc.)? NO > > Did the daughter believe that the father would continue incorporeal but in this world (as a ghost, shadow, psychic imprint, etc.)? PROBABLY(MOSTLY IRRELEVANT, THOUGH) I know this is taking awhile, but I do think just a few good questions will get you guys there. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/1426 "2017-09-18T01:25:53Z")
I notice something missing in **Chronos** ’s questions, so I’ll add it Did the daughter believe that the father would rise again, and not stay dead? (In other words, not a zombie or anything. Just a full-on resurrection.) ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/1427 "2017-09-18T01:53:24Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Did the daughter believe that the father would rise again, and not stay dead? No. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/1428 "2017-09-18T01:55:13Z")
I still think a review/re-examination of all the questions & answers would do you all good. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/1429 "2017-09-18T02:00:33Z")
Attempted summary: A mother is married to a man and wants him dead, and tricks her **15-year-old** daughter into shooting and killing him with a normal shotgun with normal amunition. The daughter was fully aware that her actions would kill him, but had no ill-intent towards him. She did not think he was evil or anything. She did not do it to protect anyone. The mother’s lie used her daughter’s spirituality against her. She was convinced that her father needed to die. She was not mentally incompetent, nor was anyone else involved, and everyone knew this. She didn’t think he wanted to die, nor that he was even unhealthy. She didn’t think he was supernatural, nor did she think he would come back to life in any way. The father was not in any way incapacitated, nor did any of this involve harvesting organs. No dead loved ones were involved. The things that stand out to me as important: [ul] [li]The age of the daughter is outright stated to be important (hence the emphasis)[/li][li]She SORTA thought someone wanted the father dead.[/li][li]The father’s death would lead to something good (but not money) for mother OR daughter OR BOTH.[/li][li]The lie is such that everyone agreed that the daughter was not guilty, but the mother clearly was.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/1430 "2017-09-18T02:06:44Z")
Following from that: Did the daughter think she would benefit? Did the daughter think her mother would benefit? Was there a boyfriend involved in this? The mother’s or the daughter’s? Did she think any humans wanted the father dead? Did she think any supernatural entities wanted the father dead? Did she think any (non-human) animals wanted the father dead? Would she have been convicted of murder if she has been older? Was the lie something that only someone under 18 would believe? Was the mother counting on the fact that she was too young as the reason why nothing would happen to either of them? Did the daughter let something slip in the investigation that the mother didn’t expect? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/1431 "2017-09-18T02:13:36Z")
Another interesting detail I left out: The daughter had to go to a reform school. So she may not have been seen as not guilty at all. Just not guilty enough for jail time. Was the daughter convicted of any crime at all? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/1432 "2017-09-18T02:36:55Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Attempted summary: > > A mother is married to a man and wants him dead, and tricks her **15-year-old** daughter into shooting and killing him with a normal shotgun with normal amunition. The daughter was fully aware that her actions would kill him, but had no ill-intent towards him. She did not think he was evil or anything. She did not do it to protect anyone. > > YES > > [COLOR=“Green”]The mother’s lie used her daughter’s spirituality against her. She was convinced that her father needed to die. She was not mentally incompetent, nor was anyone else involved, and everyone knew this. She didn’t think he wanted to die, nor that he was even unhealthy. She didn’t think he was supernatural, nor did she think he would come back to life in any way.[/COLOR] > > YES, pretty much. > > The father was not in any way incapacitated, nor did any of this involve harvesting organs. No dead loved ones were involved. > > YES > > The things that stand out to me as important: > > [ul] > [li]The age of the daughter is outright stated to be important (hence the emphasis) YES[/li][li]She SORTA thought someone wanted the father dead. YES[/li][li]The father’s death would lead to something good (but not money) for mother OR daughter OR BOTH. YES[/li][li]The lie is such that everyone agreed that the daughter was not guilty, but the mother clearly was. YES[/li][/ul] > [@BigT](#): > > Following from that: > > Did the daughter think she would benefit? Not sure. Let’s say “NO”. > Did the daughter think her mother would benefit? YES > Was there a boyfriend involved in this? Kind of. > The mother’s or the daughter’s? Mother’s. > > Did she(daughter) think any humans wanted the father dead? NO > Did she think any supernatural entities wanted the father dead? YES > Did she think any (non-human) animals wanted the father dead? NO > > She is daughter above. > > Would she have been convicted of murder if she has been older? YES > Was the lie something that only someone under 18 would believe? MAYBE > Was the mother counting on the fact that she was too young as the reason why nothing would happen to either of them? YES, PARTLY. > Did the daughter let something slip in the investigation that the mother didn’t expect? YES, I THINK SO > [@BigT](#): > > Another interesting detail I left out: > > The daughter had to go to a reform school. So she may not have been seen as not guilty at all. Just not guilty enough for jail time. > > Was the daughter convicted of any crime at all? NO. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/1433 "2017-09-18T02:53:00Z")
Well, It seems drilling down on those less certain answers is a good idea here, so let’s go all in. Did the mother’s lie use her daughter’s spirituality against her? Was the daughter convinced that her father needed to die? Was everyone involved mentally competent? Did everyone know this? Did the daughter think the father wanted to die? Did she think he was unhealthy? Did she think he would come back to life in any way? Was the boyfriend mentally competent? Did he know everyone else was mentally competent? Did the mother want the father dead so she could be with boyfriend? Did the mother think think the boyfriend wanted the father dead? Did he? Did the mother try to set things up where the boyfriend would be blamed (if anyone)? Additional questions that come to mind: Did the boyfriend interact with the daughter directly at all? Was the information that was let slip the boyfriend? Was the information anything about the boyfriend? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/1434 "2017-09-18T11:24:35Z")
OK, so the daughter believed that the mother would benefit, and the mother’s boyfriend was relevant. So the mother wanted to be with her boyfriend (for some definition of “with”), instead of the father. Was that the only relevant benefit to the mother? And the daughter thought a supernatural being wanted this to happen. Did the daughter think that the mother was supernatural? Did the daughter think that the mother’s boyfriend was supernatural? Did the daughter think that a deity wanted her father dead? ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/1435 "2017-09-18T12:26:40Z")
Is her age important because of a rite of passage, like a bat mitzvah, quincinera, etc? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/1436 "2017-09-18T12:30:29Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Well, It seems drilling down on those less certain answers is a good idea here, so let’s go all in. > > Did the mother’s lie use her daughter’s spirituality against her? YES > Was the daughter convinced that her father needed to die? YES > Was everyone involved mentally competent? DEBATEABLE, but YES > Did everyone know this? YES > Did the daughter think the father wanted to die? NO > Did she think he was unhealthy? NO > Did she think he would come back to life in any way? NO > > Was the boyfriend mentally competent? NO IDEA > Did he know everyone else was mentally competent? NO IDEA > Did the mother want the father dead so she could be with boyfriend? YES > Did the mother think think the boyfriend wanted the father dead? NO IDEA > Did he? NO IDEA > Did the mother try to set things up where the boyfriend would be blamed (if anyone)? NO > > Additional questions that come to mind: > > Did the boyfriend interact with the daughter directly at all? NO > Was the information that was let slip the boyfriend? NO > Was the information anything about the boyfriend? NO > [@Chronos](#): > > OK, so the daughter believed that the mother would benefit, and the mother’s boyfriend was relevant. So the mother wanted to be with her boyfriend (for some definition of “with”), instead of the father. > > Was that the only relevant benefit to the mother? PROBABLY > > And the daughter thought a supernatural being wanted this to happen. YES > > Did the daughter think that the mother was supernatural? NO > > Did the daughter think that the mother’s boyfriend was supernatural? NO > > Did the daughter think that a deity wanted her father dead? NO > [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Is her age important because of a rite of passage, like a bat mitzvah, quincinera, etc? No, only that she was underage and treated differently by law and by people in general. ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/1437 "2017-09-18T14:30:24Z")
Did the daughter think the supernatural being was commanding her to kill her father? Did the mother do something to make it seem like the supernatural being was commanding her to kill her father? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/1438 "2017-09-18T14:37:36Z")
> [@Folly](#): > > Did the daughter think the supernatural being was commanding her to kill her father? YES > > Did the mother do something to make it seem like the supernatural being was commanding her to kill her father? YES Anyone want to put it all together? ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/1439 "2017-09-18T14:47:44Z")
I don’t really know yet. Was the command audible? Was the command a disembodied voice? Did the mother set up a tape player somewhere to play a voice? Was the command written? ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/53-bicycles-a-lateral-thinking-puzzle/790868/1440 "2017-09-18T15:01:46Z")
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