# 538 Senate Model is out **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 12, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235 "2018-09-12T19:49:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235/61 "2018-09-13T17:56:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > They won’t have to, but they will. Maybe not in the last year, but if they up the ante to 2 years, then it’s all out war and no Senate will ever confirm the SCOUTS nominee of a president from the opposite party. The alternative is that no Senate will ever confirm the SCOUTS nominee of a president from the opposite party unless that president is a Republican. I don’t see how that is significantly better. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235/62 "2018-09-13T18:22:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No conviction following impeachment then? What difference does the election make? 67 Senate seats isn’t matheematically possible. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235/63 "2018-09-13T18:26:28Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > The alternative is that no Senate will ever confirm the SCOUTS nominee of a president from the opposite party unless that president is a Republican. I don’t see how that is significantly better. You are making an implicit assumption with which I don’t agree. ---
**Author:** ![Tierce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@Tierce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tierce)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235/64 "2018-09-13T18:36:04Z")
I’m curious about something. A lot of the power of the Senate majority comes from the majority leader’s power to run the proceedings, and chairing the various committees. If the Senate is 50-50, how are those positions determined? Is there some kind of coalition/compromise, or does Pence break that tie too? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235/65 "2018-09-13T18:41:40Z")
> [@Tierce](#): > > I’m curious about something. A lot of the power of the Senate majority comes from the majority leader’s power to run the proceedings, and chairing the various committees. If the Senate is 50-50, how are those positions determined? Is there some kind of coalition/compromise, or does Pence break that tie too? Majority Leader is an elected position in the Senate. The VP steps in to vote in the Senate only to break any ties. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235/66 "2018-09-13T19:08:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Majority Leader is an elected position in the Senate. The VP steps in to vote in the Senate only to break any ties. Which means, practically speaking, that the party holding the White House controls a 50-50 Senate. Daschle and Lott managed to negotiate a pretty decent power-sharing agreement, but those were…different times. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235/67 "2018-09-13T19:15:45Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Which means, practically speaking, that the party holding the White House controls a 50-50 Senate. > > Daschle and Lott managed to negotiate a pretty decent power-sharing agreement, but those were…different times. I thought one of the conditions of that agreement was that no Democratic Senators challenge the Florida (or any other) votes in the 2000 electoral vote count. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235/68 "2018-09-14T00:15:08Z")
Theoretically, it doesn’t even matter who the majority leader is, because the President Pro Tem only presides when the President of the Senate (i.e., the VP) isn’t doing it. It’s traditional for the VP to only show up at all when the vote is tied, but legally, they could come every day and bang the gavel and bring up motions and do all that other presiding stuff other than actually voting. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235/69 "2018-09-14T13:41:38Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Democrats gain seats by picking them up in more conservative states, so the more seats they get, the more likely they have Senators who will cross party lines and vote for a Republican nominee. You’ll get a good idea of how many seats they need to control by what the vote count is for Kavanaugh. I suspect they’ll need a solid 55 seat majority to make sure they can block future Trump SCOUTS nominees. 51 almost certainly won’t do the trick. I’ll say it right now that Heitkamp will vote to confirm Kavanaugh, as will Jones. They have to play politics in their home states, too. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235/70 "2018-09-14T17:14:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Theoretically, it doesn’t even matter who the majority leader is, because the President Pro Tem only presides when the President of the Senate (i.e., the VP) isn’t doing it. It’s traditional for the VP to only show up at all when the vote is tied, but legally, they could come every day and bang the gavel and bring up motions and do all that other presiding stuff other than actually voting. Back when the VP was a FourthBranch™ of government, the VP didn’t have time for any of that stuff anyway. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![postpic200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@postpic200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postpic200)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235/71 "2018-09-16T17:11:12Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > Yep, the Democrats simply couldn’t get a two-thirds majority this time around, as there simply aren’t enough Republicans running. In 2020, though… > > Still, there’s a one in three chance that the Senate can be returned to American hands, and it might even encourage some of the almost-American Republican senators to grow a little backbone and vote for what’s best for the country. And it’s better odds than the most generous given to Trump, before the election. You mean we have non-citizen in the Senate? After all you stated “the senate can be returned to American hands,” just because you don’t agree with them doesn’t mean they aren’t american, nor does it mean you way is the right way. It’s why we vote, to decide what direction to take the country in, you might think we’re going the wrong way, in which case vote them out, or you might believe we’re headed in the right direction in which case vote to keep them. But, just because you disagree doesn’t mean the people who voted for them, nor the people serving aren’t americans. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235/72 "2018-09-16T21:28:07Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I’ll say it right now that Heitkamp will vote to confirm Kavanaugh, as will Jones. They have to play politics in their home states, too. If Kavanaugh was immaculate, there would have probably been several crossover dems because their votes wouldn’t have mattered and it they could say things like, “while I don’t agree with him in many areas he is certainly qualified, blah, blah, blah, yakkity schmakkity…” That is no longer the case. With lying under oath, hidden documents, and now a credible attempted rape accusation, senators like Heitkamp have the the perfect political cover, “This isn’t about partisan politics this is about the integrity of the court, yada, yada, yada, something something women, so on and so forth…” ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235/73 "2018-09-16T21:57:21Z")
Case in point… Doug Jones on Twitter > [@](#): > > This was a very brave step to come forward. It is more important than ever to hit the pause button on Kavanaugh’s confirmation vote until we can fully investigate these serious and disturbing allegations. We cannot rush to move forward under this cloud. [Link](https://twitter.com/SenDougJones/status/1041418754335367170) ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235/74 "2018-09-17T06:25:38Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > You mean we have non-citizen in the Senate? After all you stated “the senate can be returned to American hands,” just because you don’t agree with them doesn’t mean they aren’t american, nor does it mean you way is the right way. It’s why we vote, to decide what direction to take the country in, you might think we’re going the wrong way, in which case vote them out, or you might believe we’re headed in the right direction in which case vote to keep them. But, just because you disagree doesn’t mean the people who voted for them, nor the people serving aren’t americans. I believe the reference is to the established fact that Donald Trump is Russia’s bitch and the Senate is Trump’s bitch so by extension the Senate is exercising Russia’s wishes because they are too craven, cowardly and spineless to stand up to these bullies. Say what you will about Democrats but recognize that they do not have the deep links to Russian interests that Trump’s “best people” keep landing in jail for. That is my take on the situation but **galen ubal** might have meant something different. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235/75 "2018-09-17T14:32:53Z")
The Republicans are going all out for the women’s vote. The traditional approach, sending candy…Ram’s Bladder Cup…Crunchy Frog…Cockroach Cluster…Anthrax Ripple…and of course, the ever-popular September Surprise! Yessir, nothing but blue skies and sunshine ahead! ---
**Author:** ![postpic200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@postpic200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postpic200)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235/76 "2018-09-17T15:10:32Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > I believe the reference is to the established fact that Donald Trump is Russia’s bitch and the Senate is Trump’s bitch so by extension the Senate is exercising Russia’s wishes because they are too craven, cowardly and spineless to stand up to these bullies. Say what you will about Democrats but recognize that they do not have the deep links to Russian interests that Trump’s “best people” keep landing in jail for. That is my take on the situation but **galen ubal** might have meant something different. Ok, who was in charge during the 2016 elections, that would be the Obama administration, they knew about Russian interference, why didn’t they do more to stop it. Could it be that the Obama administration and Obama himself interfered with foreign elections, Kenya, Israel, Russia, Macedonia, Albania, Libya, Egypt and Great Britain. Maybe they didn’t do more because they were doing it themselves. Every country tries to influence (interfere) the elections of other countries, maybe Russia did it better this time than we did, I doubt it. Given the number of sanctions, from Trump and Congress, the backlash in this country, it didn’t work out that well for them. And while you state Democrats don’t have deep links with Russia some do Mark Warner, the Podesta Group, founded by Obama adviser and Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta, Former Sens. John Breaux (D-La.) and many others have Russian ties. Didn’t the DNC and the Hillary Clinton campaign funded the anti-Trump “dossier” that relied on Russian sources? I hate to say the left has gone off the deep end but here’s a headline I found What If Trump Has Been a Russian Asset Since 1987 I not saying the right is any better here’s something that was floating about after the election on some of my boards I watch It’s funny how donations to the Clinton foundation fell after she lost the election, what were they trying to buy? Again if you think the country is heading in the wrong direction, or the person in charge is wrong for the country, then vote, if enough people agree with you then someone else will be in charge. In the end the DNC picked a bad candidate, one with a lot of baggage. I know the left points out she got move votes, but it like saying our football team ran more yards and lost. In this case it’s the electoral college that matter, just as in football goals matter. The midwest was hurting and all they heard was, it’s all great and we’re going to give you more of the same. So they wanted change and voted for the person who stated they wanted change too. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235/77 "2018-09-17T16:36:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The Republicans are going all out for the women’s vote. The traditional approach, sending candy…Ram’s Bladder Cup…Crunchy Frog…Cockroach Cluster…Anthrax Ripple…and of course, the ever-popular September Surprise! They’ll probably try to woo them by singing them the [original\* lyrics](https://www.lyricsondemand.com/soundtracks/f/fantastickslyrics/itdependsonwhatyoupaylyrics.html) from “It Depends On What You Pay” from _The Fantasticks_. \*No longer used, I understand - which is all for the best. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235/78 "2018-09-17T16:46:39Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > Ok, who was in charge during the 2016 elections, that would be the Obama administration, they knew about Russian interference, why didn’t they do more to stop it. Could it be that the Obama administration and Obama himself interfered with foreign elections, Kenya, Israel, Russia, Macedonia, Albania, Libya, Egypt and Great Britain. Maybe they didn’t do more because they were doing it themselves. [Here’s a pretty non-partisan analysis, if you want one.](https://www.npr.org/2018/02/21/587614043/fact-check-why-didnt-obama-stop-russia-s-election-interference-in-2016) Mitch McConnell refused to join in a bipartisan statement announcing and condemning the interference campaign. Wonder why? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235/79 "2018-09-17T16:47:50Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I’ll say it right now that Heitkamp will vote to confirm Kavanaugh, as will Jones. They have to play politics in their home states, too. Can’t find it right now, but I saw Jones quoted the other day as saying that Alabamans weren’t as overwhelmingly supportive of Kavanaugh as one would expect. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235/80 "2018-09-17T16:53:37Z")
Why? Someone who’s willing to vote for a child molester should be willing to support a teen molester. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/538-senate-model-is-out/821235.md?page=5)