# 6 billion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 13, 1999, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312 "1999-10-13T00:02:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![John\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@John\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_John)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 1999, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312/401 "1999-12-22T13:03:00Z")
akats > [@](#): > > So, are you telling us that Pompeii is a figment of our collective imaginations, or that the leadership of the Sierra Club plans on slaughtering and forcibly sterilizing people until the population declines to less than it was in 79 CE?s,what happened in Pompii No, Akats, what happened in AD 79 in Pompeii had little to do with overpopulation and more to do with Mt. Vesuvius. In Venezuela, the rapid doubling time and uneven distribution of wealth has forced people to live in unsafe areas. * * * Y2K, BFD ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 1999, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312/402 "1999-12-22T14:28:00Z")
Newsflash: 217 people died on October 31 because of massive overpopulation of a Boeing 767. If fewer people had been aboard, fewer would have died. We must control the airborne population! No? OK, then how about some facts? Here are some population densities derived from the [CIA World Factbook](http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html) . United States 29.7/sq.km Venezuela 26.3/sq.km FTR, the population growth rate in Venezuela is about 1.71%/yr. Net outbound immigration of 23/1000/yr keeps overall growth down somewhat. What’s that? Poor little overpopulated third-world backwater Venezuela has a _lower_ population density than the Great Open Spaces of the US? **John** , the death toll in this tragedy was high in part because of poverty, true, but mostly because there was a lot of water suddenly in and around a major city. This could easily have happened in New Orleans, most of the Mississippi valley, or any number of places built lower than the flood plain. Ask eastern North Carolina. ## The answer to the question you seem to be asking yourself is not fewer people, but more wealth (which requires free trade and looser immigration laws, but that’s another thread). If Venezuela had the economic development of North Carolina, with the attendant means of quick evacuation, much of the human toll of this disaster could have been avoided. Livin’ on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine ---
**Author:** ![John\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@John\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_John)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 1999, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312/403 "1999-12-22T14:50:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Newsflash: 217 people died on October 31 because of massive overpopulation of a Boeing 767. If fewer people had been aboard, fewer would have died. We must control the airborne population Nope, that was not caused by overpopulation but by a crazed religious zealot, if you are referring to Egypt Air. > [@](#): > > John, the death toll in this tragedy was high in part because of poverty, true, but mostly because there was a lot of water suddenly in and around a major city. This could easily have happened in New Orleans, most of the Mississippi valley, or any number of places built lower than the flood plain. Ask eastern North Carolina. The poverty is a result of poor people having children they can’t afford and living in unsafe areas. There is a great divide between the haves & have nots in Venezuela, which causes them to emigrate. Less population, more personal wealth, and less density, which exacerbated this disaster. * * * Y2K, BFD ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 1999, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312/404 "1999-12-22T15:46:00Z")
> [@](#): > > The staggering death toll in Venezuela, 25,000 plus, was partly due to that countries population building flimsy dwellings in unsafe areas, along flood plains, along rivers, at the bottom of unstable mountains, on unsafe hills. **It is just one example of how dangerous overpopulation is and how it contributes to mass disasters**. > [@](#): > > The poverty is a result of poor people having children they can’t afford and living in unsafe areas. There is a great divide between the haves & have nots in Venezuela, which causes them to emigrate. **Less population** , more personal wealth, **and less density, which exacerbated this disaster**. **bolding mine** ## So, no matter whether there are too many people or too few people, it is still overpopulation? Tom~ ---
**Author:** ![John\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@John\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_John)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 1999, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312/405 "1999-12-22T15:59:00Z")
me > [@](#): > > , and less density, which exacerbated this disaster. tom > [@](#): > > So, no matter whether there are too many people or too few people, it is still overpopulation? I misspoke. That should be MORE-greater density. Thanks for catching that obvious mistake. * * * Y2K, BFD ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 1999, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312/406 "1999-12-24T09:30:00Z")
If you’re thanking him for catching one mistake, you should send me a freakin’ Christmas basket. I caught you in about 200 of them. ---
**Author:** ![John\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@John\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_John)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 1999, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312/407 "1999-12-24T14:21:00Z")
You are getting a bag of coal and a Hearty Humbug. World population in excess of 6 billion is not good for the planet. Adding an additional 1 billion people in ONE DECADE, as we have done, IS A DISASTER. * * * Y2K, BFD ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 1999, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312/408 "1999-12-27T20:43:00Z")
Really? The extra billion **IS** a disaster? Funny, the world’s still here and civilization hasn’t collapsed yet. (And besides, we all know civilization is going to collapse because of Y2K bugs, not because of over population. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![John\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@John\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_John)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 1999, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312/409 "1999-12-27T21:29:00Z")
tracer > [@](#): > > Really? The extra billion IS a disaster? Funny, the world’s still here and civilization hasn’t collapsed yet. It has not collapsed yet. It is collapsing. You know, gradual, as predicted. Each billion degrades it more. * * * Y2K, BFD ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 1999, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312/410 "1999-12-28T22:26:00Z")
Doesn’t look degraded to me. ---
**Author:** ![John\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@John\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_John)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 1999, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312/411 "1999-12-28T23:10:00Z")
What do the monkeys on the lower branches see when they look up? You need a better perspective, tracer. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Zambezi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Mr.Zambezi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Zambezi)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 1999, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312/412 "1999-12-28T23:57:00Z")
[sarcasm on]I’m sorry, besides Volcanic explosions and flood, how is overpopulation leading to mass deaths? I imagine that hurricanes ripping through trailer parks (where people are forced to live because of the mass overpopulation in teh US and the eradication of trees) are another good example, [sarcasm off] but how about something that is causing significant deaths. Say, over 500,000 per year or 100,000 in one place. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 1999, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312/413 "1999-12-29T02:21:00Z")
Let’s see… Air pollution is not as bad now as it was 50 years ago. Water pollution is not as bad now as it was 50 years ago. CFC production – if CFCs even do the ozone damage they’re accused of – is way down from 40-50 years ago. More people are well-fed, clothed, literate, and live in sanitary conditions now than did 50 years ago. Yep, sure sounds like Earth is going to hell in a handbasket, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![John\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@John\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_John)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 1999, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312/414 "1999-12-29T03:05:00Z")
tracer > [@](#): > > Yep, sure sounds like Earth is going to hell in a handbasket, doesn’t it? Well, you’ve got the direction nailed down but you need to work on the time frame. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 1999, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312/415 "1999-12-29T19:48:00Z")
I forgot how long one Handbasket lasts. ---
**Author:** ![John\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@John\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_John)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 1999, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312/416 "1999-12-29T20:02:00Z")
tracer > [@](#): > > I forgot how long one Handbasket lasts. That depends on how many people are in the handbasket. If it is overpopulated it will go much faster. ---
**Author:** ![John\_John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@John\_John](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_John)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 1999, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312/417 "1999-12-29T20:04:00Z")
tracer > [@](#): > > I forgot how long one Handbasket lasts. That depends on how many people are in the handbasket. If it is overpopulated it will go much faster. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 1999, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312/418 "1999-12-29T21:55:00Z")
Not if you attach a big rotor blade on top of it to several sets of bicycle pedals, and tell everyone on board to pedal really hard. (Okay, okay, it’s a lot easier to keep a human-powered airplane aloft than it is a human-powered helicopter. I just didn’t know whether you could fashion fixed wings to the sides of a handbasket.) * * * The truth, as always, is more complicated than that. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Zambezi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Mr.Zambezi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Zambezi)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 1999, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312/419 "1999-12-29T22:43:00Z")
Tracer said “More people are well-fed, clothed, literate, and live in sanitary conditions now than did 50 years ago.:” Well, actually, human life span has increased globally, food production per capita worldwide has increased and tehre is indeed more literacy. Water pollution was a terrible problem before sewage systems became widespread. Rivers like the ganges are polluted not so much because of population but because of incompetent governments that dont have pollution laws or sewage systems. And as for the other pollutions and CFC problems, those are a product of internal combustion engines and the industrial evolution, not the number of humans on the planet. People do not = polution. The only pollution we naturally emit is feces and urine. The other things are due to our lifestyle which is independent of our essential humanity. If you take .5 billion naked aborigines and add another .5 billion, you dont suddenly get a bunch of cars and a factory. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Zambezi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Mr.Zambezi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Zambezi)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 1999, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312/420 "1999-12-29T22:45:00Z")
Damn, I forgot to add that a Nobel prize was won last year by a man who proved that famine is tied neither to population or food production. I forget the guy’s name, Say, maybe. Famine is a political construct. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/6-billion/17312.md?page=22)