# 60-day termination of Tenancy. Any idea how to go over the manager's head? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 11, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004 "2013-10-11T17:33:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004/1 "2013-10-11T17:33:02Z")
This week the manager of my apartment complex showed up at my door and presented me with a form titled “60-Day Notice of Termination of Tenancy” It (the form) appears to have been obtained from a company called [Nolo.com](http://Nolo.com) (the footer on the form reads: ©2009 Nolo 60-Day notice of Termination of Tenancy (Tenancy of One Year or More) is how I concluded this). I am incredibly bummed about this. We’ve been in this apartment since August 1997, and it has always been my firm intention to never again move my furniture. That is, I don’t ever want to move without being in a financial position to abandon all of my household goods and buy new ones for my new home. Because moving is a HUGE PAIN IN THE ASS, and I DON"T WANT TO DO IT! What I WANT to do is go over the manager’s head and persuade TPTB to instruct her to rescind this action. One thing I do know about my apartment manager is that she takes her orders from elsewhere. In the ten or so years that she’s been here, however, she has consistently refused to provide me with any information that would permit me to initiate face-to-face contact with the person or people to whom she reports. The most she would ever give up is a mailing address for the partnership that owns the property (it’s a P. O. Box in Rowland Heights), so I can present any concerns I have in a mailed letter. I recognize that the situation drips with irony (as I work for the USPS), but up to now nothing has been dire enough to make me want to put a letter in the mailbox and wait for the owner to get a bug up his or her ass that she (or he) wanted to respond to me by telephone. Thinking that a business has to have a business license, and a business license is a matter of public record, I decided to begin by finding out the name of the business that owns this property. So I went to the County Hall of Records, determined the parcel number of the property I live on (as well as that of another property in La Habra that I have reason to believe they also own). A search for the owner gave me a name and address in Monterey Park (East Los Angeles area), but no phone number. A look at Google Earth shows that this is a private residence and not an office building. A search of the name on spokeo gave me to understand that this person shares a name with the _“X” and “Y” Associates_ partnership. So I’m satisfied that _“X” and “Y” Associates_ is not merely a property management firm. At this point, however, I seem to be stuck. I don’t feel comfortable with the notion of going in person to this woman’s house or calling her at home even if I could find the number from Directory Assistance (I couldn’t – I checked). Anybody have any ideas how I might proceed from here? My daughter is in her senior year of high school; I _cannot_ allow this crap to disrupt her final year. Thanks in advance for any assistance. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004/2 "2013-10-11T17:38:35Z")
Why are you being evicted? Does the document (or manager) give a reason? Is it to get around rent-increase regulations, or in any possible way related to illegal reasons like race, family ages, etc.? ETA: Ownership of the building should be a matter of public record that goes beyond a blind PO Box. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004/3 "2013-10-11T17:48:25Z")
No reason is given. Here, I’ll quote the text of the form: > [@](#): > > To: KAYLASMOM, KAYLASDAD99, all tenants, subtenants, adult occupants and others in possession of the premises at _(not putting my street address here; pretend I did)_ City of Anaheim, Couunty of Orange, California. > > YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED that effective SIXTY (60) DAYS from the date of service on you of this notice, the periodic tenancy by which you hold possession of the premises is terminated, at which time you are required to vacate and surrender possession of the premises. If you fail to do so, legal proceedings will be instituted against you to recover possession of the premises, damages, and costs of suit. > > (DATED) > > (SIGNED) > Landlord/Manager That’s it. (There’s a Proof of Service section underneath that, and continuing briefly to a second page, but she apparently found filling that part out to be optional.) ETA: I do have a physical address of the owner; it’s the one in Monterey Park. The P. O. Box address is for the “management company” they’ve formed to hire and pay the property managers. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004/4 "2013-10-11T17:52:34Z")
Frankly even if you’re able to contact the building owner, he or she is _very_ unlikely to overrule the building manager. Honestly, your best bet is to accept the inevitable and find another place to live. (One consolation, though. In my experience, moving is a great opportunity to downsize and get rid of stuff. When you have to pay someone else to move your stuff, you suddenly get a lot less sentimental about some of it.) ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004/5 "2013-10-11T17:57:02Z")
**Moderator Action** The OP is asking for advice and opinions (possibly legal advice as well). As such this thread is much better suited for IMHO. Moving thread from General Questions to In My Humble Opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Minnie\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Minnie\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Minnie_Luna)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004/6 "2013-10-11T17:57:40Z")
I would imagine that the owner hires a property manager so that they don’t have to deal with issues like this. Going to the owner probably won’t help your case. I would contact the manager and ask if you could perhaps extend your lease until graduation as not to upset your daughter’s schooling. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004/7 "2013-10-11T18:01:09Z")
It occurs to me that the reason the manager is unwilling you give you the name and number of his boss is that his boss is unwilling to hear complaints from residents. After all, that’s at least partially why he hired the manager. So going over the manager’s head may not do anything for you other than piss off the owner. So, practically there may not being anything you can do. That being said, I totally sympathize with your desire to not move, and your desire to keep the eponymous Kayla’s senior year glitch free. My only consolation would be that high school aged people are quite resilient, and she could probably handle changing houses fairly easily. I imagine she’s going to college next year anyway, right? EDIT: double ninja’d ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004/8 "2013-10-11T18:02:00Z")
Did you ask for a reason? Have you done anything that might be grounds for eviction - even be a mildly irritating tenant? Is anyone else being evicted (say, for mass renovation of that building)? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004/9 "2013-10-11T18:14:16Z")
The OP has apparently tried more than once to go over the head of the building manager. So I think it’s safe to conclude that he might be a “mildly irritating tenant”. And perhaps the owners just want to upgrade the apartment and rent it for more money. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > In the ten or so years that she’s been here, however, she has consistently refused to provide me with any information that would permit me to initiate face-to-face contact with the person or people to whom she reports. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004/10 "2013-10-11T18:31:37Z")
If the manager takes her orders from somewhere, then the order to evict you probably came from there. Why do you think they would change the decision _they_ probably already made? Are you aware of any reason why she might have done this on her own? ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004/11 "2013-10-11T18:55:11Z")
> [@Minnie\_Luna](#): > > I would imagine that the owner hires a property manager so that they don’t have to deal with issues like this. Going to the owner probably won’t help your case. > > I would contact the manager and ask if you could perhaps extend your lease until graduation as not to upset your daughter’s schooling. This. I’m a property owner that rents out the property through a property manager (a necessity for me since the property is in Georgia and I am in California). I would be annoyed if our property manager encouraged our tenants to contact us directly. If they did so on their own accord I would politely but firmly refer them back to the property manager (and would consider the intrusion a major negative on their “desirable tenant” index). I’m not sure what the scale is of your apartment complex. In my case (just one property) no important action like a termination of lease is going to happen without my knowledge or approval anyway. I’m pretty sure if the tenant came to the property manager with some sort of counter proposal the manager would bring it to my attention. That is probably the only reasonable way for you to go. I would certainly consider adjusting my plans for humane reasons, within reason and without taking a considerable hit. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004/12 "2013-10-11T19:11:49Z")
Your plan isn’t going to work. Really, your only chance is to figure out why you are having your lease terminated- which you can do through the manager. Maybe you can counter it. But you might want to save up enough to hire some cheap movers off Craig’s List and get it done. As long as your daughter can get to school, she’ll be fine. I moved halfway through my senior year and it was no biggie. Indeed, it was kind of nice to be able to downsize and get a mini fresh start before college. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004/13 "2013-10-11T19:14:52Z")
Wild thought: Is there any chance the property is going into foreclosure? If that’s the case, I think it’s pretty common to evict the tenants. (Aside from that, I can’t add to what the others have offered.) ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004/14 "2013-10-11T19:17:39Z")
At least have a conversation with the manager. Start with - Why? Is it just you, or are they kicking everyone out? Is it something you’ve done that you can fix (not as in physically “fix” but change behavior)? Would that satisfy the manager? If it is not something you can fix, then what are they hoping to achieve (remodel, more rent?) Perhaps you can satisfy the managers goals (accommodating a remodel, and paying more rent.) Now obviously, if they are kicking everyone out and gutting the place, then you really don’t have an option. But it’s worth asking. No need to be antagonistic, just let them know you really don’t want to move if you don’t absolutely have to. All this focus on forms and owners is really a non-starter. The manager is the manager. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004/15 "2013-10-11T19:28:04Z")
Unless there are evident issues that haven’t been included, I think living in an apartment for 15+ years entitles the tenant to a reasonable explanation of an arbitrary eviction, even if the law permits such an action. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004/16 "2013-10-11T19:43:11Z")
Joining the chorus to recommend you talk to the apartment manager. See if there is a way to work around this. The owner hired the manager to insulate himself or herself from tenants. You may have to move. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004/17 "2013-10-11T20:08:12Z")
Initiate a lawsuit to force your stay. If the disruption is worse than the money spent on a lawyer, then start suing them. You’re going to be kicked out anyways, so why not give that a shot? What’s the worse they can do, kick you out? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004/18 "2013-10-11T20:12:10Z")
Are you sure you’re the only person who got this notice? My first assumption is that the apartment building has been sold, and is going to be torn down or majorly renovated, and they’re clearing out everyone who lives there. It seems unlikely that this is the property manager’s decision, especially if you haven’t been a “problem” tenant up to this point. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004/19 "2013-10-11T20:15:44Z")
Am I correct in deducing that you have not asked the manager the reason for the eviction? Not when she presented you with the form or at any time since? Why the hell not? Or if you did, what did she say? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004/20 "2013-10-11T20:24:09Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Initiate a lawsuit to force your stay. If the disruption is worse than the money spent on a lawyer, then start suing them. You’re going to be kicked out anyways, so why not give that a shot? What’s the worse they can do, kick you out? That’s a losing effort and a waste of money. The disruption will happen no matter what, why add more disruption of a court case and the cost of a lawyer? Talk to the manager if you can, find out the reasoning and make your decision from there. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-day-termination-of-tenancy-any-idea-how-to-go-over-the-managers-head/671004.md?page=2)