# 60 years ago today **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 30, 2005, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894 "2005-04-30T22:12:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894/21 "2005-05-01T13:02:07Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You know, I couldn’t care less about Hitler’s death. There are at least six million deaths that interest me more. I’m with you, buddy. Never again. Though I found that will above interesting. It’s so…human. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894/22 "2005-05-01T14:46:50Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > Though I found that will above interesting. It’s so…human. That’s the part that everybody forgets; what Hitler did was not inhuman, it was very human. What he did has in style, if not in volume, happened since then too. It’s scary to realize that he was not an inhuman monster, but rather an examplar of a type of person which is all too common in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894/23 "2005-05-01T15:35:10Z")
That’s what was so fascinating about the movie, _Downfall_. Hitler is portrayed as very believably human. He isn’t portrayed _sympathetically_, exactly but he isn’t potrayed as superhuman either. That’s one of the things we have to come to grips with is that Hitler was not some supernatural demon but _was_ a human being. He can happen again. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894/24 "2005-05-01T18:08:20Z")
I, too, think it’s important to remember that Hitler (and his ilk) was human. Not only does it mean that he can happen again, but to demonize him as evil incarnate seems to absolve him from responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![LindyHopper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@LindyHopper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LindyHopper)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894/25 "2005-05-02T16:41:15Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Coincidentally, I went to see the movie, _Downfall_ today. When they showed the date that Hitler killed himself, I thought, “Hey, that’s 60 years ago today.” > > And that may be the least interesting anecdote anyone has ever posted on SDMB. > > Good movie, though. It’s nice to hear Hitler raving in the original German. Haven’t seen _Downfall_, but I did just see _Triumph of the Will_ yesterday. Speaking of raving in the original German. He didn’t scare me as much as Himmler and Goebbels, though. Brrr… ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894/26 "2005-05-02T16:56:11Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > That’s one of the things we have to come to grips with is that Hitler was not some supernatural demon but _was_ a human being. He can happen again. I don’t mean to pick on you particularly, **Dio** , but why is this such a great revelation to people? Of course he was a human being, and of course wars of aggression and genocide can happen again. Heck, it has happened again since WWII. I mean, are there really people who have trouble dealing with the fact that Adolf Hitler was a person? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894/27 "2005-05-02T17:02:17Z")
Is the scarier question, as far as humanity’s future is concerned, that Adolph Hitler could exist, or that Adolph Hitler could (very nearly) succeed? ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894/28 "2005-05-02T17:27:16Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > Shhh! You’ll wake John Wayne! I’m already up! ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894/29 "2005-05-02T18:03:54Z")
Of course, if you believe in Hell, then it would follow that you believe God is the one who decides who goes. Speculating on the residents is a bit of a waste of time isn’t it? I like to think that God needed to create a Hitler in order to advance His larger agenda. To this end, Hitler performed as designed and could very well be among God’s favored creations. Like Ma Theresa, George Armstrong Custer and…ok, everybody else that ever was created by His hand. Or do you just want a Hell to exist, independent of divine management, for people that piss _you_ off? Get outside yourself. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894/30 "2005-05-02T18:13:22Z")
> [@](#): > > You know, I couldn’t care less about Hitler’s death. There are at least six million deaths that interest me more. **Alessan** – a great deal more than 6 million. Estimates vary from site to site. This one has even more Ukrainians killed that Jews, which I’ve never heard before. [http://www.uca.edu/divisions/academic/history/cahr/holocaust.htm](http://www.uca.edu/divisions/academic/history/cahr/holocaust.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894/31 "2005-05-02T19:30:04Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > **Alessan** – a great deal more than 6 million. Estimates vary from site to site. This one has even more Ukrainians killed that Jews, which I’ve never heard before. > [http://www.uca.edu/divisions/academic/history/cahr/holocaust.htm](http://www.uca.edu/divisions/academic/history/cahr/holocaust.htm) Note I said “at least”. The other people murdered by the Nazis were just as important and their deaths were just as tragic as those of the six million Jews. It’s just, well, more personal (which is not te same as important). It’s my family, and it could easily have been me, too. If you want to, I’ll amend my statement. There are _many millions of people_ whose deaths interest me more than that of Adolf Hitler. IIRC, incidentally, the Ukrainians were killed whosesale by both sides. First by the invading Nazis, and then, after they started collaborating with the invaders, by vengeful Soviets. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894/32 "2005-05-03T02:55:59Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > Of course, if you believe in Hell, then it would follow that you believe God is the one who decides who goes. Speculating on the residents is a bit of a waste of time isn’t it? I like to think that God needed to create a Hitler in order to advance His larger agenda. To this end, Hitler performed as designed and could very well be among God’s favored creations. Like Ma Theresa, George Armstrong Custer and…ok, everybody else that ever was created by His hand. > > Or do you just want a Hell to exist, independent of divine management, for people that piss _you_ off? Get outside yourself. Well, I guess I’m just a petty, smallminded person for being glad that _Adolf Hitler_ is dead, and hoping that, if there is/was some kind of “life” after death, he’d be facing some kind of punishment for the suffering and millions of deaths he’s responsible for. But y’know, as a matter of fact, I _do_ personally believe that Hitler went to the same place that Custer, Theresa, Genghis Khan, Beethoven and myself have gone or are headed. That is, what’s left of them is still where some living person last left them. Buried or burned or left to rot in the open—in the end, just another slab of dead meat. And, frankly, I’m a lot more comfortable living in a meaningless universe where I share _oblivion_ with Hitler, than I would in a universe so designed that I’d follow him into Paradise. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894/33 "2005-05-03T11:13:05Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > 1. Mao > 2. Stalin > 3. Hitler I disagree. Mao and Stalin, while absolutely brutal to their own people, did not precipitate a World War. There is vastly more blood on Hitler’s hands. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894/34 "2005-05-03T13:12:05Z")
I don’t believe the name of Hitler should be attached to personal culpability for the war. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894/35 "2005-05-03T13:29:04Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > And, frankly, I’m a lot more comfortable living in a meaningless universe where I share _oblivion_ with Hitler, than I would in a universe so designed that I’d follow him into Paradise. meh…ain’t the paradigm I buy into either. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894/36 "2005-05-03T13:31:00Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > I don’t believe the name of Hitler should be attached to personal culpability for the war. Are you kidding? Why not? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894/37 "2005-05-03T13:46:12Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > I don’t believe the name of Hitler should be attached to personal culpability for the war. As with **Airman** , I’m astonished. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![SlyFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SlyFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlyFrog)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894/38 "2005-05-03T14:04:16Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > I don’t mean to pick on you particularly, **Dio** , but why is this such a great revelation to people? Of course he was a human being, and of course wars of aggression and genocide can happen again. Heck, it has happened again since WWII. I mean, are there really people who have trouble dealing with the fact that Adolf Hitler was a person? **Dio** is right, without any question in my mind. No question that people do have trouble dealing with that fact. It is much easier to demonize and forget than it is to analyze and understand. I am very comfortable that the former is what 95% of people have done regarding Hitler. I made a similar post in Cafe Society under the discussion of whether anyone had read Mein Kampf (I’d link it, but I’m fairly clueless how to do a clean link). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894/39 "2005-05-03T14:40:28Z")
It’s one thing to know intellectually that Hitler was human, it’s another to real feel it emotionally. Hitler is hard to get a handle on in that way. For the most part he is iconized as the ranting dictator with adoring mobs in black and white film footage. From those images, it’s difficult to get any sort of cognitive ingress into what he was as a person. He has been almost defensively mythologized and held out at a distance. I think a lot of people are loathe to try to understand him psychologically because they’re don’t really want to know how ordinary he was. I also think that it’s probably not wise to lay the crimes of Nazi Germany completely at the feet of Hitler himself as if the millions of Germans who participated in it had no control over their own actions or beliefs or decisions about who to put in power. Antisemitism existed in Europe for centuries before Hitler was born, he didn’t invent it, he just exploited what was already there. Hitler did not create antisemitism, antisemitism created Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894/40 "2005-05-03T14:47:27Z")
And war has existed for even longer. Does the fact that war was pre-existing exempt a nation’s leader from responsibility for starting another one? I know the answer to this, and so do you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-ago-today/301894.md?page=3)