# 60 years for a warning shot? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 2, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-for-a-warning-shot/700194 "2014-10-02T16:49:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-for-a-warning-shot/700194/1 "2014-10-02T16:49:36Z")
[Woman denied new ‘stand your ground’ hearing](http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/marissa-alexander-denied-new-stand-your-ground-hearing) > [@](#): > > At her trial, Alexander testified that she fired the gun because Gray threatened to kill her after a long pattern of abuse, while Gray testified that after the couple argued, she went and got the handgun and discharged it without any provocation from him. In 2012, a jury found Alexander guilty after deliberating for twelve minutes. A new trial was granted after a judge found that the jury had been given improper instructions. In June of this year, the stand-your-ground law was [revised to allow warning shots](http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/politics/2014/06/21/gov-rick-scott-signs-warning-shot-bill/11204137/): > [@](#): > > The “warning shot” bill (HB 89) was partially inspired by the case of Marissa Alexander. The Jacksonville woman was initially sentenced to 20 years in prison after firing a shot near her estranged husband during an altercation. She contended she fired in self-defense, but a judge rejected her use of the “stand your ground” law that allows someone to use deadly force if they believe their life is in jeopardy. Circuit judge James H. Daniel denied Alexander’s request for a new SYG hearing, saying that the revision to the law could not be applied retroactively. Personally, I believe SYG laws are ripe for abuse. That is, there are certain people who would use it as a shield so that they can proactively shoot someone instead of shooting someone as a last resort. In other words, if I can escape from an attacker, I should escape. If I can’t escape, or if attempting to escape would pose a risk I find unacceptable, I have the right to shoot him. I do not feel I have the right to kill someone when I have the opportunity to slip out unseen. There is a place for such laws, but they can be used to justify what virtually amounts to murder. Like the laws or not, they exist in many places. Marissa Alexander didn’t kill anybody. She didn’t shoot anybody. The SYG law was revised to allow warning shots \*specifically because of her case. And yet the state is going after her for _triple_ her original – and I believe unjustified – sentence. How can they possibly justify that? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-for-a-warning-shot/700194/2 "2014-10-02T17:57:51Z")
I can only interpret this to mean whe would have been better off if she killed him. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-for-a-warning-shot/700194/3 "2014-10-02T18:53:45Z")
Marissa Alexander needed a better lawyer or maybe she should just take her head out of her ass. **IIRC** , Alexander was originally offered a 3 year plea bargain. She should have taken it. Maybe the Governor will offer her a pardon? Existing Florida law mandated a 20 year sentence if Alexander was found guilty of whatever crime she was originally charged with. Keyword being mandatory. Alexander was only charged with one count. She could have been charged with three counts. And Alexander was found guilty. Alexander left the safety of the garage with a pistol she had retrieved from her car. Alexander re-entered her ex’s house, threatened her ex, and then fired a shot in his direction (or at him but missed?). Unfortunately for Alexander, her ex’s two children (or young adults) were near him. Alexander will now be charged with THREE counts. Assuming the Governor isn’t going to step in, Alexander’s had best hope is that the judges sentences her to concurrent and not consecutive sentences. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-for-a-warning-shot/700194/4 "2014-10-02T18:57:43Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I can only interpret this to mean whe would have been better off if she killed him. Alexander was not in imminent danger. Alexander was the imminent danger. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-for-a-warning-shot/700194/5 "2014-10-02T19:02:54Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Alexander was not in imminent danger. Alexander was the imminent danger. Tell that to the judge who dismissed the case on SYG grounds against the guy who saw his car broken into, then chased down the guy who stole his car radio and shot him to death. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-for-a-warning-shot/700194/6 "2014-10-02T19:08:18Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Marissa Alexander didn’t kill anybody. She didn’t shoot anybody… And yet the state is going after her for _triple_ her original – and I believe unjustified – sentence. How can they possibly justify that? [Here’s a photo of Marissa Alexander](http://www.eurweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/marissa-alexander.jpg). Use Photoshop or some other tool to zoom in on the skin. Pay special attention to the darkness parameter. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-for-a-warning-shot/700194/7 "2014-10-02T19:42:32Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Tell that to the judge who dismissed the case on SYG grounds against the guy who saw his car broken into, then chased down the guy who stole his car radio and shot him to death. You tell him. I’m not sure which case you’re referring to. There was a Florida case where someone attempted to recover his car radio (and several other car radios) from a man he saw steal his radio. When the owner asked for his radio back, the thief swung his sack of radios at the owner. An expert testified in court that the sack of radios could have caused sever injury or even death. The radio’s owner was in imminent danger. Self-defense applied and the radio’s owner stabbed the thief in order to end the threat. The thief died as a result of the radio’s owner defending himself. Alexander wasn’t in imminent danger when she fired at/near her ex. She did create imminent danger when she fired at/near her ex and two others. Whether you think it was fair or not, according to existing Florida law at that time, Alexander was charged, found guilty by a jury, and given a 20yr mandatory sentence. Now Alexander will be retried for endangering her ex AND tried for endangering the two others in the room. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-for-a-warning-shot/700194/8 "2014-10-02T19:49:22Z")
Ok, I forgot that the car owner stabbed rather than shot, and you forgot [that he chased him down to do it.](http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2012/03/fl-man-cleared-in-stand-your-ground-stabbing.html) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-for-a-warning-shot/700194/9 "2014-10-02T19:56:45Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Ok, I forgot that the car owner stabbed rather than shot, and you forgot [that he chased him down to do it.](http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2012/03/fl-man-cleared-in-stand-your-ground-stabbing.html) IIRC, Florida law says that you can, or have a right, to recover your property from someone who has stolen it. It’s not illegal to chase down a thief. I suspect you would normally have to chase a thief in order to recover your property. In that case, the homicide was considered justifiable because the thief attempted to injure or kill the radio’s owner before the radio’s owner resorted to lethal force. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-for-a-warning-shot/700194/10 "2014-10-02T20:00:57Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [Here’s a photo of Marissa Alexander](http://www.eurweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/marissa-alexander.jpg). Use Photoshop or some other tool to zoom in on the skin. Pay special attention to the darkness parameter. Yeah, my first thought was, “I wonder if she’s black?” Sure enough… ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-for-a-warning-shot/700194/11 "2014-10-02T20:11:05Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [Here’s a photo of Marissa Alexander](http://www.eurweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/marissa-alexander.jpg). Use Photoshop or some other tool to zoom in on the skin. Pay special attention to the darkness parameter. Here is a photo of [Demarro Battle](http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cases/case_27), not charged after killing Omar Bonilla, under the SYG statute. Go ahead and zoom in on the skin. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-for-a-warning-shot/700194/12 "2014-10-02T20:30:47Z")
Here [are](http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cases/case_89) [some](http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cases/case_26) [more](http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cases/case_23) cases where blacks killed whites and were not charged under SYG. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-for-a-warning-shot/700194/13 "2014-10-02T20:46:53Z")
“Head shots, head shots… Kill the sons of bitches.” – G. Gordon Liddy. He later said you want there to be only one surviving witness to give an account of what happened. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-for-a-warning-shot/700194/14 "2014-10-02T22:19:17Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Here [are](http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cases/case_89) [some](http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cases/case_26) [more](http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cases/case_23) cases where blacks killed whites and were not charged under SYG. There’s a Black that’s not in jail? :eek: 😕 :smack: Wow. Centuries of racism charges proven false, right here at SDMB. You were there. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-for-a-warning-shot/700194/15 "2014-10-03T01:10:31Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > There’s a Black that’s not in jail? :eek: 😕 :smack: > > Wow. Centuries of racism charges proven false, right here at SDMB. You were there. Ah but did you zoom in on the skin? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-for-a-warning-shot/700194/16 "2014-10-03T02:13:58Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [Here’s a photo of Marissa Alexander](http://www.eurweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/marissa-alexander.jpg). Use Photoshop or some other tool to zoom in on the skin. Pay special attention to the darkness parameter. Yeah, _my very first thought_ was “Is she black?” I looked at the picture before even looking at the rest of the thread and the story and no surprise, she’s black. > [@Terr](#): > > Here [are](http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cases/case_89) [some](http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cases/case_26) [more](http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/cases/case_23) cases where blacks killed whites and were not charged under SYG. And so you can find a few exceptions to the rule?\* Usually\* it boils down to race. Legalizing the killing of black people is much of the point of SWG laws IMHO, and it’s _certainly_ been much of the effect of such laws. As a black woman she doesn’t come under the category of people such laws were designed to shield. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-for-a-warning-shot/700194/17 "2014-10-03T03:00:02Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And so you can find a few exceptions to the rule?\* Usually\* it boils down to race. Legalizing the killing of black people is much of the point of SWG laws IMHO, and it’s _certainly_ been much of the effect of such laws. As a black woman she doesn’t come under the category of people such laws were designed to shield. Really? “Usually” it does? [Here is the full list](http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/fatal-cases) of SYG cases from Florida. Lots of whites killing whites and getting immunity. Lots of blacks killing blacks and getting immunity. A few blacks killing whites. And a few whites killing blacks. I invite you to find a “racist” pattern. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-for-a-warning-shot/700194/18 "2014-10-03T03:56:47Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > …And so you can find a few exceptions to the rule?\* Usually\* it boils down to race. Legalizing the killing of black people is much of the point of SWG laws IMHO, and it’s _certainly_ been much of the effect of such laws. As a black woman she doesn’t come under the category of people such laws were designed to shield. Florida SYG and self-defense laws were designed to protect people like Alexander’s ex, and the others in the room, from Alexander’s armed assault. A new jury will hear the same evidence, and hear the same witnesses, and more than likely, will come to the same conclusion - Guilty. Except this time, there will be three counts. Guilty, guilty, guilty = 20yrs x 3 or 60 years. Maybe Alexander should request that her guardian angel, Al “Don’t listen to the Florida State Attorney or your own lawyer’s advice” Sharpton, volunteer to serve time with her. She was far better off without his advocacy. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/60-years-for-a-warning-shot/700194/19 "2014-10-03T11:05:46Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > - Usually\* it boils down to race. Usually, you like to just say shit that you feel without bothering to look at data. In the fatal SYG cases where the accused was black, 14 were convicted and 25 were found to be justified. Where the accused was white, 27 convictions and 45 justified. Black person killing a white person under SYG: 3 were convicted and 4 were justified. A white person killing a black person: 2 convictions and 6 justified. Doesn’t quite live up to your expectation, does it?