# 66 Books in 66 weeks: Eonwe's Bible Review **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 5, 2003, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795 "2003-06-05T11:54:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2003, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795/61 "2003-06-08T06:57:43Z")
Hmm. Learn something everyday around here. Thanks, **tracer**. ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2003, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795/62 "2003-06-08T13:44:53Z")
I don’t know, **dropzone** - we’re already as high Anglican as you can get. We even have a Lady altar at the church we’re presently attending. Practically Catholic anyway. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2003, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795/63 "2003-06-08T16:52:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by A Monkey With a Gun \* > Hmm. Learn something everyday around here. Thanks, **tracer**. And, wouldn’t’cha know it, what you “learned” from me wasn’t completely accurate. Here’s the Merriam-Webster definition of Apocrypha with a capital A: **a :** books included in the Septuagint and Vulgate but excluded from the Jewish and Protestant canons of the Old Testament – see BIBLE table **b :** early Christian writings not included in the New Testament So, it looks like the Gospels of Thomas (both of them) **are** included in the capital-A Apocrypha, going by definition b. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795/64 "2003-06-08T17:32:16Z")
Without getting into the little hijack, I would second **Ben** ’s comment about reading commentary along with the books, themselves. (If you’ve got the cash, picking up a Scofield Reference Bible or something similar might work.\* ) The issue is not that the bible cannot be read on its own; the issue is that an understanding of the backgrounds of various books brings many of the books to life. It also helps one avoid drawing incorrect conclusions about some events or proclamations based on a faulty comprehension of the words used. - (I disagree with **dropzone** ’s observation regarding the Jerusalem Bible. Certainly, one must be careful to note that the _theology_ expressed is clearly Catholic in origin (which may make it inappropriate for one’s use). However, the specific note to which **dropzone** alludes is quite clear in noting that the current Catholic theology is based on a rendering of a _Latin translation_ of the bible. The _historical_ notes are generally free of bias and the theological notes can be identified as such.) ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795/65 "2003-06-08T20:49:10Z")
Wow… I don’t turn the computer on for a day and look what happens! Well, as **Euty** asked in his moderator-ness, I’d also kindly ask that the ‘debate’ be dropped. I’d really like this thread to informative and interesting for myself as well as other dopers, and too much mean-spirited arguing will muddy it up. Thanks. I’m not too worried about getting bogged down with any of the books. I figure, having read the Silmarillion, I can probably forge through just about anything. 🙂 As **Priceguy** and **Freiheit** ask, I will keep an eye out for inconsistancies and contradictions. Honestly, I think it’s the imperfections in anything that help us to learn and understand, so I think it’s a worthwhile endeavour to spot them and to think about them. Hoping to stay away from further argument, I will say **heygeno** , that I think there are other options besides God and madman. Rabbi he was, whether God, madman, or just man. And also **heygeno** , I do have a short attention span at times, so I look forward to reading Proverbs as a nice break from the long narrative bits. **tracer** , I recently read Gilgamesh, and though I haven’t read the Bible yet (obviously), the many similarities were quite apparent. As a bit of a mythology buff, I’ll definitely be reading this with an eye for similar themes and stories to other cultures and religions. **Eric\_Balrog** , you’re not the first person who’s suggested that I read the New Testament first. I think, though, that the Old Testament will lend a necessary background and perspective to the New Testament. I think (and please understand, absolutely no offense meant here) that it’s a suggestion most often put forth by Christians, since, after all, Jesus doesn’t show up until the New Testament, and he and his story are kind of the crux of Christianity. There are a few other religions, though, that share Old Testament stories with Christianity without sharing the New Testament, and they also hold some clame on the OT. So, in fairness to everyone, I think I’ll go Old to New. **Howard Juneau** , great tips all of them. I’ll keep them in mind. **Ben** and **tomndebb** , your point is well taken as far as some conpanion literature. I am relatively familiar with Roman history during the life and times of Jesus, though I’m sure I could stand to know more as it relates to Jesus, the Jews, and Christianity (mini-hijack: I read _Constantine’s Sword_ last year, which I thought was very helpful in understanding Jewish/Christian relations). The only reason why I hesitate to do that is because one of my purposes is to really focus on how what I’m reading relates to the ‘general’ (if there is such a thing) Christian perspective and attitudes. To understand where it is that Christians I know and see are coming from, and I think it’s safe to say that most Christians have their Bible information without that intense historical perspective beyond what their pastor/minister/priest/etc gives in his or her sermon. That said, much of that info _is_ important in understanding what is going on (otherwise, why bother having a minister in the first place). I’m curious **tomndebb** , what’s the story with a _Scofield Reference Bible_? I’d definitely be interested in picking up something that might give me a little context for what I’m reading. **CadburyAngel** , thanks for ruining it for me! 😉 What’s Cosby’s _Portraits of Jesus_? I’ve got a tape of Bill Cosby’s _Noah_ bit, but I don’t think that’s what you’re talking about. **Guin** et al, would someone like to explain a little to me about different Bibles? I understand generally how it was pieced together, but I wasn’t really aware that one of the things to come out of the Reformation was a revised Bible. Well, I think I’ve addressed everyone’s questions and comments. Thank you all for being interested, I’m really looking forward to this, and think it’s going to be a lot of fun; not only to be reading, but to be discussing with you all. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2003, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795/66 "2003-06-08T23:55:38Z")
The Scofield Reference Bible is a standard reference work for many people. It is presented from the perspective of conservative (not necessarily Fundamentalist) Protestant Christian theology. As such, it has some built in biases, but it also does a decent job of addressing the language and context of certain passages. Looking over the [1917 Scofield notes on-line](http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/ScofieldReferenceNotes/), it seems to me that either the later versions have expanded their outside commentary quite a bit or that I confused the Scofield with some other book(!), perhaps the Oxford Annotated. (If I was thinking of the Anchor Bible, I apologize–the Anchor _commentary_ for each book is about as long as the whole bible.) As the granddaddy of most “reference bibles,” the Scofied is the name I grab and throw out in conversation the most. The Jerusalem Bible is similar (although with a Catholic bias) and there are several other similar works. In each case, you do need to be aware of the theological bias, but the _historical_ and _linguistic_ notes are usually OK. The Oxford Annotated RSV with Apocrypha (or various “Oxford Annotated” versions) is an excellent reference with limited (not non-existent) theological bias. (None of these are cheap.) For a quick overview of the compilation of the bible, one can certainly do much worse than the series put together by **Dex** and **Euty** : [Who wrote the Bible? (Part 1)](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbible1.html) [Who wrote the Bible? (Part 2)](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbible2.html) [Who wrote the Bible? (Part 3)](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbible3.html) [Who wrote the Bible? (Part 4)](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbible4.html) [Who wrote the Bible? (Part 5)](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbible5.html) There were several vigorous discussions regarding the reports in Comments on Staff Reports–all of which were lost in the Winter Of Our Missed Content. In terms of the “other books” that did not make it into the various canons, we have discussed those on several occasions: [Who uses the Apocrypha?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125300) (This thread links to the [Northwest Nazarene University Wesley Center for Applied Theology’s Noncanonical Literature](http://wesley.nnu.edu/noncanon/) page. [Settling argument re: Old Testament](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=138590) [Christian Bible - KJV and apocrypha](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=138944) [Versions/History of the Bible](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=145810) In terms of “how was it written? (or translated?)” we have: [Why is the New Testement written in Old English?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=136739) [King James Bible - Accuracy?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=175138) [about the different versions of the bible](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=158124) These links are not exhaustive, of course–exhausting, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795/67 "2003-06-09T01:08:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > \*\*Psssst! Lissla! Look into Evangelical Lutheranism if they have it in Toronto. The transition might be easier than straight to Catholicism. All the scholarship but none of the quirks that can cause a newbie to bang his or her head against the wall. You know, the theological WTF? moments. A lot more opportunities for women and folks with alternative lifestyles, too. But I do miss the gambling and burning people at the stake. 😉 \*\* Lutherans are also known as “Catholic Lite.” 🙂 All the ceremony with only 2/7 of the Sacraments! SpazCat, recovering Lutheran ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795/68 "2003-06-09T01:29:34Z")
Priceguy: > [@](#): > > Even Martin Luther wondered aloud why Moses would repeat and reiterate laws to the point of boredom. What a shame, then, that he was such a virulent anti-semite (not that this was unusual for medieval European Christians). He would have found the Talmud very enlightening about such “reiterations.” And **Eonwe** , a major bit of advice from me - unsurprisingly - is, when you’re reading the Old Testament, and you’ve got questions or confusions, try consulting a Jewish resource in addition to whatever Christian resources you normally would consider consulting. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795/69 "2003-06-09T03:48:13Z")
Having my curiosity piqued about the Scofield, I went out and did some poking around at it. I _had_ used it as an example of the most popular of reference bibles, but I think I’m going to withdraw any support for it and get in the habit of mentioning the Oxford Annotated, instead. Apparently, the Scofield has been quite popular explicitly because of its particular view of the bible, with a very strong theological tilt that does get in the way of the historical, linguistic, and literary commentary. Note : Fixed coding - Euty ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795/70 "2003-06-09T14:05:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lissla Lissar \* > \*\*I don’t know, **dropzone** - we’re already as high Anglican as you can get. We even have a Lady altar at the church we’re presently attending. Practically Catholic anyway. \*\* Gee, sounds like it! Sorry for my misunderstanding but I’ve come to equate “I’m Christian” with “I’m Non-Conformist” because that’s how it is used in the States. The transition from High Anglican to Roman rite should be plenty smooth. Were this Great Debates I might even ask what the point of converting would be, since the Anglican, Lutheran, and Roman churches have agreed to disagree in recent years. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795/71 "2003-06-09T14:25:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SpazCat \* > **Lutherans are also known as “Catholic Lite.” 🙂 All the ceremony with only 2/7 of the Sacraments!** No shit! I looked around and said, “Just Baptism and Confirmation? Where the hell did Extreme Unction go?” ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795/72 "2003-06-09T15:08:38Z")
> [@](#): > > No shit! I looked around and said, “Just Baptism and Confirmation? Where the hell did Extreme Unction go?” You still got it, man. Cracked me up pretty good with this one. . . ---
**Author:** ![YoudNeverGuess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a587f6/32.png) [@YoudNeverGuess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoudNeverGuess)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795/73 "2003-06-09T16:48:25Z")
ATTENTION - NON-PARTISAN BIBLE RECOMMENDATION I recommend the Harper Collins Study Bible. It isn’t affiliated to any branch of christian religion but tries to be as neutral as possible and has good notes on differences between various versions. It also includes all the books (included in Protestant, catholic, Judaism etc…) ---
**Author:** ![Nate\_the\_Great](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ea924/32.png) [@Nate\_the\_Great](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nate_the_Great)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795/74 "2003-06-09T17:51:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by YoudNeverGuess \* > \*\*ATTENTION - NON-PARTISAN BIBLE RECOMMENDATION > > I recommend the Harper Collins Study Bible. It isn’t affiliated to any branch of christian religion but tries to be as neutral as possible and has good notes on differences between various versions. It also includes all the books (included in Protestant, catholic, Judaism etc…) \*\* I second that recommendation. Another good study bible for lay study is the Oxford Annotated. Both are NRSV, which many, including myself, see as being a great translation. The errors are few and far between. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795/75 "2003-06-09T18:25:07Z")
Dang Tomndebb! Nice bunch of links 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795/76 "2003-06-09T18:27:49Z")
One great thing about the **New Oxford Annotated Bible** is that it frequently provides footnotes relating to the translation of the text (e.g., it will give you a synonym for an ambiguous word, or it will explain the etymology). For me, this helps me feel like I’m getting a good understanding of the spirit of the text and don’t have to worry about translator bias as much. The New Oxford Annotated Bible also prefaces each book with a page or so of historical and literary background, so that you can place each work in its appropriate context. [Here](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0195284828/ref=lib_dp_TT01/103-9777370-1770255?v=glance&s=books&vi=reader&img=6#reader-link) is an example of one of these explanations (introducing the book of Genesis), taken from [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com), so you can see for yourself. (I used this version of the Bible in my college religion classes – it’s great for students, whether classroom- or self-taught.) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795/77 "2003-06-09T19:00:01Z")
There is a translation by a guy named Fox (IIRC) of the Pentateuch which is outstanding. He tries to give the flavor and structure of the Hebrew in the translation - where most versions say “altar”, he says “slaughter-site”, for instance, and his phrasing of the Ten Commandments elminates the stiff formality we all got used to in Sunday School (at least we Lutherans did). I understand he is working on the whole Old Testament. Outstanding stuff. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795/78 "2003-06-09T20:59:03Z")
I remember reading a while back about an attempt to translate the Bible into Klingon. There was a division among the ranks, however, as some Klingon translwators wanted to remain true to the original and others wanted to translate the Bible in such a way that it would fit in with Klingon culture. (The Klingon language has no word for “mercy”, for example.) Did either of thee attempts succeed? ---
**Author:** ![Strainger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strainger/32/244_2.png) [@Strainger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strainger)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2003, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795/79 "2003-06-09T23:09:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\*There is a translation by a guy named Fox (IIRC) of the Pentateuch which is outstanding. \*\* That would be Fox’s commentary on the Buber-Rosenzweig translation of the Torah, [The Five Books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy.](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0805211195/ref=cm_wl_ovu-pg.1-pos.2/002-7756545-1597662?v=glance&coliid=I389663TJTZTDB&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER) Looks very similar to Friedman’s translation of and [Commentary on the Torah](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060507179/ref=cm_wl_ovu-pg.1-pos.1/002-7756545-1597662?v=glance&coliid=I25IKEKVER5JGW&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER), which I became engrossed with one night at Barnes and Noble. Anyone have any familiarity with the two? I’m wondering how they compare to one another. I see Fox uses the original Hebrew names, but don’t remember if Friedman uses the original or translated names. Maybe I should start another thread. I’m looking forward to commentaries on Nevi’im and Ketuvim by either one of them. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2003, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795/80 "2003-06-10T01:55:53Z")
I’m surprised nobody’s mentioned _ **Asimov’s Guide to the Bible** _ in this thread yet. It’s a HUGE pair of volumes, but it goes into excruciating detail about each and every one of those 66 books. The upshot of most of Asimov’s commentary on Genesis is that the various names of the characters in Genesis correspond to names of tribes and nations that lived nearby the ancient Israelites at the time Genesis was written (9th-6th century B.C.). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/66-books-in-66-weeks-eonwes-bible-review/179795.md?page=5)