remember we are only hearing about the capital. there are towns closer to the epicenter that we are not hearing about.
i think the hundreds of thousand number will be possible when you add in the capital, and 2 or 3 other towns.
this earthquake is somewhat equal to the “world series” quake. this really shows the lifesaving properties of building codes. i know of many owners who complained about the expense of earthquake codes. " there hasn’t ever been a bad earthquake here, why do i have to spend all this money?" haiti shows why even if the last big quake was hundreds of years ago, it is worth the expense.
i’m not surprized that many buildings collasped, i’m a bit surprized that the un building, hospital, and pres. palace did. i would have thought those would have a bit more structural integrity.
On The World, they interviewed the Salvation Army’s disaster coordinator. His account of the earthquake and the current situation is incredible. Here’s their coverage. The interview with him is at the beginning of the segment.
Jeez. That dude’s messed up. I always figured he was just your typical money-grubbing televangelist, but this crap (about Haiti), this is only a degree or two removed from Phelps-level douchebaggery. Did he just make up this deal-with-the-devil crap or was that spun out from some pre-existing conspiracy theory, too?
Over the past 30 years or so I heard from more than one source (one an honest-to-Og Voudoun houngan or priest, another being an unrelated Haitian, yet another an anthropologist with a PhD who did her work in Haiti) that the slaves called upon the loa or “Voodoo Gods” to assist them in overthrowing their masters. I could well see evangelical Protestants or conservative Catholics of the time, as well as some of our time, viewing this as making a pact with the devil.
Voundoun is certainly practiced in Haiti. There are a lot of people who are Catholics. There is also significant overlap between the two groups.
I will also mention that Voudoun is a syncretism between African religion and practices (particularly that of Ife but also with other influences), native Taino beliefs and practices, and Catholic imagery and lip service.
This assertion is correct and nicely stated. I, too, have heard this from Ph.D.s specializing in Haitian religion and from an honest-to-Og Voudoun mambo or priestess. (Mama Lola of the eponymous book.) There is a longstanding tradition of demonizing African religions as witchcraft and / or devil worship and Robertson probably believes it. That does not excuse his ignorance, but I find that most people assume that Voodoo is either fictional or demonic, rather than the reality: a syncretic system of supernatural beliefs and practices that help a people with few resources get through rather difficult lives. Most of the scary things people believe about voodoo are folk beliefs formerly applied to witches in a European context and projected onto the Africans (in both New & Old Worlds), the exceptions being possession and animal sacrifice, both of which are genuine elements of Haitian ritual.
Consider that from a Fundie Christian POV, anything that is religious/spiritual and not Christian (or Judeo-Christian for the really broadminded) is Satanic, by definition and literally, in that its supposed gods are actually demons from Hell. That applies to actual Satanism, and Voodoo, and Wicca, and Islam, and Hinduism, and the religions of ancient Greece and Rome, etc., etc. Robertson is probably no different from Jack Chick in that regard.
And frankly, it is probably a more scripturally defensible position than any more ecumenical attitude. It is precisely how the early Christians would have thought.
I hadn’t actually considered the voodoo angle, but it makes a lot more sense; the fundie right have demonized “strange” foreign religions for centuries, especially ones that involve elements seen through a pious Christian eye as fundamentally evil. Possession and sacrifice are straight out of the Necronomicon even to the layman so I can see where Robertson derived the accusation. It’s still ignorant bunk and a mind-bogglingly tactless thing to say in the midst of a tragic disaster with potentially tens of thousands lives lost, but it falls more in line with what I expect out of him and his.
I posted this in the pit thread, but it bears repeating. You can donate 10$ to the red cross by texting HAITI to 90999. It’s legit, you can check it out here.
In Canada, Rogers and Bell (and likewise Telus and Fido) subscribers can text HAITI to 45678 to donate $5 too, and likewise, it’ll be billed to your account. (Press release here)
I know the military is capable of small package air drops. I would think that water and ready to eat meals would be dropped on the city for the first week while supplies make their way inward from the airport. People can’t wait for this stuff.
For anyone looking for a non-monetary way to help, I just heard on NPR that Sports Chalet stores are accepting donations of “gently worn” shoes, to be sent to the people in Haiti. Given how poor that country is I’m sure it will be appreciated, especially now.
(It’s not mentioned in their homepage yet, but I’m sure it’s only a matter of time.
This is interesting, because IIRC, after the Indian Ocean Tsunami in '04, the death toll reports started out fairly modest…then started climbing. I was in England at the time it happened, and by the time I left, the death toll had risen from around 20,000 to 100,000.
What has been said about Voodoo in Haiti is correct. Also, Pat Robertson is a shithead.
You’re not reading my post. It was specifically directed at the first week. A C-17 is capable of dropping 150,000+ 8 oz bottles of water. They needed this Tuesday. It’s now Friday. Instead of clogging up the airport with an offload they could be making regular passes over the city directly until land supplies catch up. This can be combined with the high-density nutrition bars that have enough sustenance for 1 day.
We had no problem flying continuous flights into Germany in the 50’s. This isn’t even a fraction of the logistics needed for that.
upate: I just heard on the local news that our local rescue recovery team is being delayed here because the airport is backed up with other flights. This is a team that specializes in rescuing people from collapsed buildings. They’ve been ready to go for days.
Agreed that water was needed Tuesday. However, wouldn’t there be a problem with dropping even small water bottles over densely populated areas? You’re going to hit people for sure. All the open spaces in Port-au-Prince seem to be occupied by tent cities or the wounded. If you air drop thing a significant amount of the stuff will land on top of the rubble, which will make it difficult for people to get to it. I’m not saying your idea is impossible, just that there are some problems that might need solving on top of it.
I think Germany had more capacity for flights at the time, and by the 1950’s the cities were no longer piles of rubble, the worst of it had been cleared. Port-au-Prince apparently doesn’t have passable roads at this point.
The are people doing that work already. I’m sure by the time your team gets down there the initial groups will be exhausted and need to be rotated out. Of course, it would be better if your guys were down there right now, too, but their efforts will not be wasted.
The bitter, bitter fact is that it is not possible to get aid to absolutely everyone who needs it. People will die who, under other circumstances, could be saved. That is, in fact, part of what makes this so very catastrophic and a tragedy. Even a global effort is not going to be enough to save a lot of people who are alive today but won’t be tomorrow or the day after.
“Historians of Haiti agree on fixing the beginning of the revolution on a cult ceremony held on August 14, 1791. They also agree on the details, namely, that it was a ceremony conducted by a houngan named Boukman (he is sometimes called a bocor) who had been born in Jamaica. It seems that, in the middle of the ceremony, a great storm arose, and there suddenly appeared an old Negress whose body was trembling violently and who danced a ‘wild’ dance, holding a large knife over her head. As a climax of the dance she sacrificed a black pig. All the participants drank of the blood of the pig, and swore to follow Boukman. A week later the revolution was in swing. This event is cited by Verschuren (Vol. 2, p. 26) and Simpson (II) among others.” – Maya Deren, Divine Horsemen: The Living Gods of Haiti, 1953, pp. 62–3 (footnote).
Deren suggests, correctly in my opinion, that the “sudden appearance” of the old woman refers to a human woman being possessed by Marinette, one of the Petro loa. Otherwise, there is nothing inherently implausible except the implications (magic storm, etc.). I see no reason why a revolution cannot have begun with a religious ceremony; why would you think it’s a “myth” ?
