# 7:43am - It Began **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 11, 2014, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-43am-it-began/698168 "2014-09-11T12:44:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-43am-it-began/698168/21 "2014-09-11T15:41:56Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > It should be remembered, but remembered in context. I love you guys. Only on the Dope will the verbiage of a relatively innocuous 9/11 memorial post be dissected and argued over. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-43am-it-began/698168/22 "2014-09-11T15:45:27Z")
I forgot what I was supposed to remember. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-43am-it-began/698168/23 "2014-09-11T16:34:03Z")
The “never forgive, never forget” attitude has been very productive for Israeli and Palestine. They’ve been at it since what, 1948? We’ve only been at it for a little over one decade. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-43am-it-began/698168/24 "2014-09-11T17:07:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You look at a lot of places in the world, it seems like lost of their problems are caused by people who remember _too much_ history. A little amnesia might go a long way in the Middle East. I suppose it depends on how you remember it. If you remember things with vengeance in your mind, and if you let your hate distort the history you are remembering then that’s a bad thing. But if you forget about history then you don’t learn the lessons from it…and I think that this is one of the biggest problems in the Middle East. They didn’t learn from their history (or from Europe’s history especially wrt religious fanaticism), and are definitely doomed to repeat the same mistakes, over and over and over again. As for those who say they can’t forgive, well…to me it’s pretty much a moot point. A majority of the people responsible for 9/11 are dead now. Either they are burning in hell or have simply ceased to exist, depending on your religious and philosophical view point (or, perhaps they have been reincarnated as goats or sheep or something…always living in fear of that farmer with the hip waders :p). What I hope is we learned some lessons about what a few really determined people can do to even as powerful a nation state as the US, and that we should be vigilent for this sort of thing in the future (perhaps keeping better track of whack-a-doo groups like ISIS/ISIL), but that regardless shit will happen and that we shouldn’t be paralyzed by it or over-react the way we did wrt Iraq. If we all just went back to sleep and didn’t learn or remember history we could very well repeat all of the mistakes we did the last time, and that wouldn’t be a good legacy, IMHO, for those people who died on 9/11. I also think a moment of silence isn’t a bad thing to remember when thousands of people were killed by crazy mother fuckers justifying it with their twisted distortion of their religion. And, let’s not forget all the others who have died as a consequence of those crazy mother fuckers…many additional thousands of which wouldn’t or might not have died if they had just stayed home. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-43am-it-began/698168/25 "2014-09-11T17:52:56Z")
controlled demolition lol ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-43am-it-began/698168/26 "2014-09-11T18:59:04Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > I love you guys. Only on the Dope will the verbiage of a relatively innocuous 9/11 memorial post be dissected and argued over. Perhaps people are trying to justify the forum was posted in. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-43am-it-began/698168/27 "2014-09-11T19:09:33Z")
I turned on the TV that morning just as CNN was being interrupted to talk about something happening at the WTC. I’ll never forget that day, I’m not going to forgive any of the perpetrators, but I’d like to forget a lot of dumb stuff that followed, and continues to this day. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-43am-it-began/698168/28 "2014-09-11T21:15:36Z")
I’m not really seeing a debate, here. Off to IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-43am-it-began/698168/29 "2014-09-11T21:25:18Z")
After all the innocent people we killed in Iraq I can no longer feel any particular sympathy over 9/11. Just a bunch of murderous _Islamic_ fanatics flying planes into skyscrapers full of people from a nation of murderous _Christian_ fanatics. Each side convinced they are different and morally superior, while being more alike than they’ll ever admit. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-43am-it-began/698168/30 "2014-09-11T21:31:13Z")
I’m seeing a lot of parallels between the radical Islamist revolution and the Anarchist/Communist upheaval. That one ran from the fall of the Bastile until the fall of the Berlin Wall. We won’t live to see its resolution. ---
**Author:** ![Onyerbike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onyerbike/32/5402_2.png) [@Onyerbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onyerbike)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-43am-it-began/698168/31 "2014-09-11T23:27:52Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > After all the innocent people we killed in Iraq I can no longer feel any particular sympathy over 9/11. Just a bunch of murderous _Islamic_ fanatics flying planes into skyscrapers full of people from a nation of murderous _Christian_ fanatics. Each side convinced they are different and morally superior, while being more alike than they’ll ever admit. Probably the bravest thing I’ve ever read. From mind the greatest tragedy wasn’t that 3000 people died, even though that is 3000 too many - it was the death of reason and the loss of an exciting, very exportable culture. After 9/11 America became boring, insecure and fake. I do remember that particular morning and it shocked me watching those big towers go down. But I was also plenty shocked at the recent Japanese tsunami - which killed a lot of people as well and didn’t result in Japan invading the oceans. I am truly sorry though that some disturbed pieces of crap flew planes into all those people, it just pains me to know that the damage they did went well beyond the lives they took or the buildings they broke. Sad all around : ( ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-43am-it-began/698168/32 "2014-09-11T23:33:58Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I suppose it depends on how you remember it. If you remember things with vengeance in your mind, and if you let your hate distort the history you are remembering then that’s a bad thing. But if you forget about history then you don’t learn the lessons from it…and I think that this is one of the biggest problems in the Middle East. They didn’t learn from their history (or from Europe’s history especially wrt religious fanaticism), and are definitely doomed to repeat the same mistakes, over and over and over again. > > As for those who say they can’t forgive, well…to me it’s pretty much a moot point. A majority of the people responsible for 9/11 are dead now. Either they are burning in hell or have simply ceased to exist, depending on your religious and philosophical view point (or, perhaps they have been reincarnated as goats or sheep or something…always living in fear of that farmer with the hip waders :p). What I hope is we learned some lessons about what a few really determined people can do to even as powerful a nation state as the US, and that we should be vigilent for this sort of thing in the future (perhaps keeping better track of whack-a-doo groups like ISIS/ISIL), but that regardless shit will happen and that we shouldn’t be paralyzed by it or over-react the way we did wrt Iraq. If we all just went back to sleep and didn’t learn or remember history we could very well repeat all of the mistakes we did the last time, and that wouldn’t be a good legacy, IMHO, for those people who died on 9/11. > > I also think a moment of silence isn’t a bad thing to remember when thousands of people were killed by crazy mother fuckers justifying it with their twisted distortion of their religion. And, let’s not forget all the others who have died as a consequence of those crazy mother fuckers…many additional thousands of which wouldn’t or might not have died if they had just stayed home. Good post, well said. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-43am-it-began/698168/33 "2014-09-12T01:35:49Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > The “never forgive, never forget” attitude has been very productive for Israeli and Palestine. They’ve been at it since what, 1948? We’ve only been at it for a little over one decade. They’ve been at it for several thousand years. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-43am-it-began/698168/34 "2014-09-12T01:50:50Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > The thousands that were killed that day did. The the planes hit the towers at 8:46, not 7:43. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-43am-it-began/698168/35 "2014-09-12T04:52:20Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I think most of us were asleep. I was. I live in Arizona. It was 5:46 here. ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-43am-it-began/698168/36 "2015-06-06T18:00:19Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > After all the innocent people we killed in Iraq I can no longer feel any particular sympathy over 9/11. Just a bunch of murderous _Islamic_ fanatics flying planes into skyscrapers full of people from a nation of murderous _Christian_ fanatics. Each side convinced they are different and morally superior, while being more alike than they’ll ever admit. You don’t think the U.S. is morally superior to Al Qaeda? What is your definition of morality? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-43am-it-began/698168/37 "2015-06-06T19:53:55Z")
The poster you address isn’t around anymore. If you do a search on his posts, you will probably figure out his definition of morality. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-43am-it-began/698168/38 "2015-06-06T20:07:43Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The poster you address isn’t around anymore. If you do a search on his posts, you will probably figure out his definition of morality. > > Regards, > Shodan One might say he’s observing much more than a moment of silence. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2015, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-43am-it-began/698168/39 "2015-06-06T20:43:11Z")
Indeed. Closed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-43am-it-began/698168.md?page=1)