# 7 Jan 2021 and beyond - the aftermath of the storming of the Capitol **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 8, 2021, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020 "2021-01-08T10:28:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 138
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2749 "2022-01-12T17:51:29Z")
Nice. I have a couple of comments, though. First, I think you missed one ……. **The DOJ Insurrection**. The firing of Bill Barr. John Eastman, Jeffrey Clark, and Mark Meadows plotting to send a untruthful letter on DOJ letterhead telling the state legislatures that the election was corrupt and that they should meet to invalidate the results. The pressure campaign to get senior DOJ officials like Jeffrey Rosen to sign onto the letter, culminating in Trump threatening to fire Jeffrey Rosen for not signing on to the letter. This plot intersects with both the White House insurrection plan and the State government insurrection plan, but I think it qualifies as an insurrection plot on its own. I actually think this plot is the most legally actionable one of all. And I would split what you are calling **The Legal Insurrection** in two…one part being Guiliani’s legal insurrection and the other part being the Sidney Powell, Lin Wood, Patrick Byrne and Mike Lindell effort - **The Crazy Insurrection** **The Crazy Insurrection** had actually been in the works for a couple of years, started by ASOG and Richard Ramsland. The theories — rigged machines…Venezuela….Italian vote flipping……smart thermostats changing votes….had actually been kicking around in development for a couple of years, at least….just lying in wait for a candidate that would go to the wall to challenge their loss. If you can stand it, Patrick Byrne’s [own 6 part account](https://www.deepcapture.com/2021/01/november-3-december-23-all-the-presidents-teams/) of the insurrection, which feels about eleventy-gazillion words long, is on his Deep Capture website in all its pompous self-aggrandizing glory, with details of some bizarre quests to find the fraud that you won’t find anywhere else. He also talks about the team going to Florida, uninvited, to crash the Mar-a-Largo Christmas and how the security guard thanked him for his election fraud efforts as they were unceremoniously escorted off the property. At one point Trump, as the star of this very special episode of the Apprentice, assigned the crazy team to work with Guiliani…….who was mostly drinking and filing futile technical challenges to election law. But I’m still classifying them as two separate plots. I think is very important for everyone to recognize - as you have done- that the insurrection wasn’t one single unified effort, but multiple schemes that were sometimes loosely coordinated and sometimes in competition with each other. This clusterfuckiness created a lot of confusion and inconsistencies that some people are using as a defense……for example, the storming of the Capitol worked against some of the plots while advancing others. Nice analysis, though……good luck with the debate. Is is being zoomed? ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2022, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2750 "2022-01-12T19:36:59Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Nice analysis, though……good luck with the debate. Is is being zoomed? I’ll amplify what Ann said (that’s “Me too” using a slightly larger vocabulary), and ask also if it will be recorded and posted? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2751 "2022-01-12T19:43:04Z")
No, sorry, it won’t be. And before I oversell this meeting, it’s a weekly Meetup group called “Thinkers & Drinkers” where we meet weekly, drink & eat, and debate a single topic in a round-robin format. Someone has questions to throw out and we go from there. I called it a ‘debate’ more for linguistic shorthand reasons. Anyway, on some topics, I just sometimes take it to the nth level. It’s the Doper in me. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2752 "2022-01-13T16:30:32Z")
I’m beginning to think that some of the rioters aren’t the best at impulse control or considering personal consequences… > **[Jailed Jan. 6 Defendant Lashes Out and Leaves Court Hearing: 'I'd Like to Go...](https://lawandcrime.com/u-s-capitol-breach/jailed-jan-6-defendant-lashes-out-and-leaves-court-hearing-id-like-to-go-eat-my-food-and-play-cards/)** > > A Michigan man accused of assaulting police with chemical spray during the Jan. 6 Capitol riot interrupted the judge overseeing his detention hearing, announced that he was "done with this," and left the proceeding after the judge said he would keep... ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2753 "2022-01-13T16:55:54Z")
It’s nice that the court acknowledged defense counsel’s efforts to continue to professionally represent a complete dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2754 "2022-01-13T17:02:59Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The lawyer for a guy who was 19 when he attacked the Capitol is trying to claim that his client’s brain wasn’t fully developed at the time he tried to overthrow the government. That excuse would be valid for all those morons. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2755 "2022-01-13T17:03:40Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > considering personal consequences Leopard, face, etc. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2756 "2022-01-13T18:51:51Z")
conspiracy charges are happening finally. oath keepers (10 or 11) are being arrested/charged. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2757 "2022-01-13T19:23:03Z")
> **[Oath Keepers leader and 10 others charged with 'seditious conspiracy' related...](https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/13/politics/oathkeeper-rhodes-arrested-doj/index.html)** > > The Justice Department escalated its January 6 investigation by bringing seditious conspiracy charges against 11 defendants, including the leader of the Oath Keepers, Stewart Rhodes. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2758 "2022-01-13T19:24:50Z")
About freaking time! And sedition. I’m trying very hard to keep my maniacal grin in check right now. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2759 "2022-01-13T19:27:18Z")
Does one conspiracy charge imply others are forthcoming? Or can a single person be charged with conspiracy, with no other people being charged with same? ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2760 "2022-01-13T19:28:40Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Leopard, face, etc. “Beware the wrath of…Doctor Leopardface! Bwahahaha!” ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2761 "2022-01-13T19:30:26Z")
This batch included 10 people. Although it is conceivable that one person be charged with conspiracy while others are not due to evidence problems or immunity bargains. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2762 "2022-01-13T19:30:53Z")
I suspect that a number of the Oath Keepers where in the military. Don’t really know though. Anyway, it they where in the military, this is the oath. - I, (name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that **I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic** ; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the president of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed … So much for keeping an oath. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2763 "2022-01-13T19:33:17Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > This batch included 10 people. Although it is conceivable that one person be charged with conspiracy while others are not due to evidence problems or immunity bargains. Thanks, I just saw this. There were others charged with the same thing. Appreciate it! ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2764 "2022-01-13T19:36:48Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I will obey the orders of the president of the United States Well, if you know who the “real” president is, then I don’t see how they broke that oath! /sarcasm ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2765 "2022-01-13T19:38:07Z")
Does anyone have a handy and reliable link to what “seditious conspiracy” means legally, and what kinds of punishment is allowed? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2766 "2022-01-13T19:42:32Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Does anyone have a handy and reliable link to what “seditious conspiracy” means legally > # 18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy > > - [U.S. Code](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384#tab_default_1) > - [Notes](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384#tab_default_2) > > [prev](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2383) | [next](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385) > > If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2767 "2022-01-13T19:43:04Z")
[18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384) > If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2768 "2022-01-13T19:46:46Z")
Many thanks to you you both! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=137) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=139)