# 7 Jan 2021 and beyond - the aftermath of the storming of the Capitol **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 8, 2021, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020 "2021-01-08T10:28:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 141
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2022, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2809 "2022-01-18T22:18:42Z")
If you scroll down an inch to [21:05:16], which headlines the following paragraph… > [@](#): > > No vice president has ever before had to get some sort of language from the parliamentarian explaining that two sets of electors were sent to and from particular states, he was going to have to count one. …Rachel Maddow lays out Mike Pence’s dalliances with fake electoral voting prior to Jan. 6. I guess Kyle Cheney of [Politico.com](http://Politico.com) should be taking credit for this scoop. > **[Transcript: The Rachel Maddow Show, 1/17/22](https://www.msnbc.com/transcripts/transcript-rachel-maddow-show-1-17-22-n1287655)** > > Guests: Joyce Beatty, George Selim ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2022, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2810 "2022-01-18T22:57:41Z")
Also posted in the Schadenfreude thread: 😃 😃 😀 😄 😃 😀 😀 😀 😜 😃 > **[Rudy Giuliani among Trump allies subpoenaed by Jan. 6 panel](https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-boris-epshteyn-bennie-thompson-donald-trump-subpoenas-871ecaecc54ffff987205684833850ed)** > > WASHINGTON (AP) — The House committee investigating the U.S. Capitol insurrection issued subpoenas Tuesday to Rudy Giuliani and other members of Donald Trump’s legal team who filed bogus legal challenges to the 2020 election that fueled the lie that... ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2811 "2022-01-19T04:52:38Z")
One of the most interesting reveals I saw in this newest batch of subpoenas was in Boris Epshteyn’s. The relevant language: > Published reports have placed you at meetings at the Willard Hotel in the days leading up to January 6, and you are reported _to have participated in a call with former President Trump on the morning of January 6, during which options were discussed to delay the certification of election results in light of Vice President Pence’s unwillingness to deny or delay certification_. (Emphasis mine.) That’s direct evidence of Trump’s participation in the scheme. There will have been others, presumably on the call, that already testified to the truth of this, else the Committee would not have made the assertion in their subpoena. Whoops. [Link to the letter that accompanied the subpoena](https://january6th.house.gov/sites/democrats.january6th.house.gov/files/2022-1-18.BGT%20Letter%20to%20Epshteyn_Redacted.pdf). ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2812 "2022-01-19T21:47:18Z")
Insurrectionist out on bail sent back to jail after an AR-15 was found in his car during a DUI stop. > **[Capitol Rioter’s Bail Revoked After Cops Find AR-15 in His Car During DUI Arrest](https://www.thedailybeast.com/capitol-rioter-james-tate-grants-bail-revoked-after-cops-find-ar-15-in-his-car-during-dui-arrest)** > > In James Tate Grant’s car, police found an AR-15, 60 rounds of ammunition, and combat fatigues. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2813 "2022-01-19T22:29:53Z")
I think the judge in this case summed up many of the problems that apply to the entire United States: > "There seems to be a toxic combination of substance abuse problems, alleged mental health issues and repeated access to firearms that poses a really serious threat to the community.” Seriously - you should put that quote on your money. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2814 "2022-01-19T23:13:54Z")
5 minutes ago: > ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2815 "2022-01-19T23:15:44Z")
This is going to be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2816 "2022-01-19T23:26:48Z")
You have to obey a House Committee request for documents, once it has gone all the way to the Supreme Court, and they say you have to. Well, sure. [But what if we didn’t?](https://whatever.scalzi.com/2021/01/07/but-what-if-we-didnt/) I am hopeful that they actually can’t pull this shit absolutely, as the official records are being held by the National Archives. I’m sure, though, that there are other “less official” records that will never be turned over. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2817 "2022-01-19T23:37:47Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > 5 minutes ago: > > [https://twitter.com/johnkruzel/status/1483939512925532165?t=LjYN0pUgd4fROuXdp8FT8g&s=19](https://twitter.com/johnkruzel/status/1483939512925532165?t=LjYN0pUgd4fROuXdp8FT8g&s=19) Kinda wish Trump still had Twitter. I’d love to see his head asplode. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2818 "2022-01-19T23:39:44Z")
It depends on who the “we” is. I mean, it’s a reasonable assumption that Trump or someone who works for him has sole physical authority for all his records, but I don’t know for sure if that’s the case. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2819 "2022-01-19T23:50:30Z")
Another account: [https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/590505-supreme-court-rejects-trumps-bid-to-shield-records-from-jan-6](https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/590505-supreme-court-rejects-trumps-bid-to-shield-records-from-jan-6) The decision wasn’t signed, but seems to have drawn only one dissent: > …Justice [Clarence Thomas](https://thehill.com/people/clarence-thomas), a staunch conservative, was alone in indicating that he would have granted Trump’s request… To be fair, at his age sleeping on the couch would be murder on his back. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2820 "2022-01-20T00:23:02Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > It depends on who the “we” is. I mean, it’s a reasonable assumption that Trump or someone who works for him has sole physical authority for all his records, but I don’t know for sure if that’s the case. As I understand it, these are records that _automatically_ go to the National Archives for preservation. No administration gets away from that. The process occurs with no ability by any administration to stop it. Now, members of the Trump cabal may have tried their best to circumvent the system by using personal email accounts, Signal, etc., but I doubt they were very successful. From what I’m hearing, the Committee is laser-focused on a 4-page document they know exists and what’s in it. I look forward to learning more about that. But there will be thousands of documents if the Committee wants them. My guess is they already have many of them. By declining to take up this matter, this SCOTUS decision will also foreclose all those anticipated claims of bogus “executive privilege” by dipshits like Sidney Powell, Rudy Giuliani and the other usual suspects. Essentially, SCOTUS relied on [the very thorough ruling of the DC Circuit issued on December 9th](https://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/913002F9EFB94590852587A60075CC4F/$file/21-5254-1926128.pdf) (.pdf). I am reposting the link I referred to on December 11th in this thread. And again, I would encourage people to read it. It’s a terrific ruling and although 68 pages, an easy read. > [@Steve\_MB](#): > > To be fair, at his age sleeping on the couch would be murder on his back. Hilarious. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2821 "2022-01-20T01:08:57Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > As I understand it, these are records that _automatically_ go to the National Archives for preservation. No administration gets away from that. The process occurs with no ability by any administration to stop it. I would bet cash that someone in Trump’s circle–perhaps Donald himself–will have floated the idea of blowing up the National Archives. Whoever it is in those night-of-Jan-5 pipe-bomb-planting photos is (presumably) still available, so… In any case, Trump will be unpleasant company tonight: all _three_ of the Supreme Court Justices he appointed have _betrayed_ him! ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2822 "2022-01-20T01:28:41Z")
I remember reading stories of Trump tearing up documents in the office while his staffers desperately tried to pick up the torn bits to piece together because they recognized that stuff needs to be preserved. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2823 "2022-01-20T01:31:34Z")
Yep. > **[Meet the guys who tape Trump's papers back together](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/10/trump-papers-filing-system-635164)** > > The president's unofficial 'filing system' involves tearing up documents into pieces, even when they're supposed to be preserved. > [@](#): > > Solomon Lartey spent the first five months of the Trump administration working in the Old Executive Office Building, standing over a desk with scraps of paper spread out in front of him. > > Lartey, who earned an annual salary of $65,969 as a records management analyst, was a career government official with close to 30 years under his belt. But he had never seen anything like this in any previous administration he had worked for. He had never had to tape the president’s papers back together again. > > Armed with rolls of clear Scotch tape, Lartey and his colleagues would sift through large piles of shredded paper and put them back together, he said, “like a jigsaw puzzle.” Sometimes the papers would just be split down the middle, but other times they would be torn into pieces so small they looked like confetti. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2824 "2022-01-20T01:32:38Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > From what I’m hearing, the Committee is laser-focused on a 4-page document they know exists and what’s in it. There have been references to a draft executive order relating to elections … ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2825 "2022-01-20T01:38:55Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > In any case, Trump will be unpleasant company tonight: all _three_ of the Supreme Court Justices he appointed have _betrayed_ him! Again. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2826 "2022-01-20T01:41:30Z")
“Is you taking notes on a fucking criminal conspiracy?” ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2827 "2022-01-20T01:57:34Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I would bet cash that someone in Trump’s circle–perhaps Donald himself–will have floated the idea of blowing up the National Archives. I would put nothing past him. Nothing. > [@Sherrerd](#): > > In any case, Trump will be unpleasant company tonight: all _three_ of the Supreme Court Justices he appointed have _betrayed_ him! There’s an element of rich irony that the only SCOTUS Justice who supported him was… the Black guy. But hail fellow well met, they’ll always have exploitation of women to bind them together! Is Trump _ever_ pleasant company? > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > There have been references to a draft executive order relating to elections … Zounds. That would be quite something, since only a president can issue such an order. Thanks for the enlightenment! But I can already hear it: “I didn’t order that to be written. I never signed it. Bill Barr Jeffrey Rosen John Eastman ordered that draft! I never saw it! You ain’t got nuttin’ on me!! Fake news!! HOAX!!!” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2828 "2022-01-20T02:49:38Z")
aha! it was in this very thread: > [@7 Jan 2021 and beyond - the aftermath of the storming of the Capitol](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2441): > > Things that make you go “hmmm”: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=140) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=142)