# 7 Jan 2021 and beyond - the aftermath of the storming of the Capitol **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 8, 2021, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020 "2021-01-08T10:28:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 149
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2969 "2022-02-23T17:34:38Z")
Good stuff - thanks, **r\_c**. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2970 "2022-02-23T17:36:56Z")
That really is a superb link. Thanks for sharing. I’ve bookmarked it. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2971 "2022-02-23T18:48:55Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I think it needs to be emphasized that Trump has also used extra-legal means to hide records, such as ripping them up, flushing them down the toilet and hiding them at his home. And, occasionally, digesting them. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2972 "2022-02-23T21:56:42Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > barbara mcquade has written a model prosecution memo on jan. 6th, using public records, reporting, and books. very nice to have everything in one place and spelled out. > > [United States v. Donald Trump (justsecurity.org)](https://www.justsecurity.org/80308/united-states-v-donald-trump-model-prosecution-memo/) I’ll echo the thanks of others here. I’m at work so just skimmed the subheads, but it seems like a comprehensive takedown. Excerpts from the conclusion, for other TLDRs: > Based on the facts already known, it appears that Trump, Eastman, and others could be charged with conspiracy to defraud the United States and obstruction of an official proceeding. > The first factor to consider is whether prosecution would advance a substantial federal interest. Here, the answer is yes. > > The evidence shows that Trump and others attempted to overturn the results of a free and fair election through corrupt means. Their conduct has undermined public confidence in our elections. This effort is antithetical to a democracy that chooses its leader through the popular election of electors who, in turn, select the president. > > If Trump were charged and acquitted at trial, then he and his violent extremist followers would be emboldened. A sober and clear-eyed assessment of prosecution must consider that charging Trump criminally could have profoundly negative consequences for our country. > > The only thing worse would be not charging him. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2973 "2022-02-23T22:07:49Z")
But … but … but … Hillary’s emails!!! ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2974 "2022-02-23T22:13:58Z")
Apparently a charge of seditious conspiracy would require the use of violence. So it would be a reach to charge Trump, who only went so far as _inciting_ violence. (The Oath Keepers, though, have already been so indicted.) ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2022, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2975 "2022-02-23T23:08:28Z")
They might get him using the Manson strategy. After all, Charlie only _incited_ the murders, he didn’t actually kill anyone personally. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2976 "2022-02-28T17:28:01Z")
We are a clown down. > **[Local man charged in Capitol riot dies](https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/local-man-charged-in-capitol-riot-dies/)** > > A local man charged in the Jan. 6 Capitol riot has died. (Suicide.) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2977 "2022-03-03T02:17:24Z")
Jan 6th committee concludes Trump committed federal crimes: > > > Neal Katyal @neal\_katyal ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2978 "2022-03-03T02:52:07Z")
It’s nice to see it finally stated in an unequivocal way. I expect we’ll next have to wait for the judge’s ruling on this motion and for the Committee’s report. I hope criminal charges soon follow. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2979 "2022-03-03T02:59:51Z")
[One of the Oath Keepers]([https://One](https://One) of the Oath Keepers has plead gui-keeper-plea-deal-seditious-conspiracy/index.html) has plead guilty to seditious conspiracy and is cooperating with the prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2980 "2022-03-03T03:21:58Z")
Your link is broken, but here is one that works. > **[Oath Keeper pleads guilty to seditious conspiracy and will cooperate with...](https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/02/politics/oath-keeper-plea-deal-seditious-conspiracy/index.html)** > > An Oath Keeper who served as private security for right-wing figures around January 6 pleaded guilty to seditious conspiracy and is cooperating with the Justice Department, becoming the first person charged with seditious conspiracy related to the... ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2981 "2022-03-03T14:36:47Z")
Exactly what I’ve been saying all along! > [@The Jan 6 Insurrection: what crimes were committed, what does accountability look like?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-jan-6-insurrection-what-crimes-were-committed-what-does-accountability-look-like/957269/5): > > I’ve been thinking “conspiracy to defraud the United States”. IANAL, but everything I’ve read about this offense indicates that the fraud doesn’t have to involve cheating the government out of money or property — interfering with or obstructing legitimate government activity is enough. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2982 "2022-03-03T14:39:06Z")
One the one hand, this is good news. On the other hand, once again I don’t believe Trump will actually get charged with anything or stand trial. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2983 "2022-03-03T15:14:52Z")
It’s a long way from here to there, to be sure, but I think it could actually happen. ---
**Author:** ![lum\_s\_husband](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lum_s_husband/32/3698_2.png) [@lum\_s\_husband](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lum_s_husband)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2984 "2022-03-03T15:32:53Z")
Wake me up if any actual action is taken. Or even contemplated to be taken. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2985 "2022-03-03T15:41:47Z")
> [@lum\_s\_husband](#): > > Or even contemplated to be taken. Or sent to a committee to be contemplated to be taken. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2986 "2022-03-04T00:09:18Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > One the one hand, this is good news. On the other hand, once again I don’t believe Trump will actually get charged with anything or stand trial. For that to happen it will be necessary for Merrick Garland to burn his Federalist Society bridges once and for all. I guess we’ll all be in suspense for a while longer, waiting to see if he’ll do it. > [@](#): > > … I cannot discover if Judge Garland actually is or has been a member of the conservative Federalist Society, but he has numerous links to the Society: > > - He listed in the [“Experts” link of the website of the Federalist Society.](http://www.fed-soc.org/experts/detail/merrick-b-garland) (It should be noted that the website states that a person’s listing on the Experts page does not imply any “endorsement or relationship between the person and the Federalist Society.”) > - Judge Garland moderated a panel called [“Changing the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure: Has the Time Come?”](http://www.fed-soc.org/multimedia/detail/changing-the-federal-rules-of-civil-procedure-has-the-time-come-event-audiovideo) on Dec. 9, 2010 hosted by the Federalist Society at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C. One of the panelists argued that discovery costs should routinely be shifted to the party requesting the discovery (something that defense interests have lobbied for ever since, with partial success in the amendment to Rule 26(c)(1)(B)). Another panelist argued that Rule 4(b), allowing a subpoena to issue against a defendant without a preliminary hearing, is unconstitutional. A third panelist described _Twombly_ and _Iqbal_ as “perfectly sensible cases.” Of course, merely by moderating the panel, Judge Garland cannot be understood to be endorsing any of these views. > - By my count, Judge Garland has also moderated about ten other panels hosted by The Federalist Society. … [https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/civpro/2016/03/judge-merrick-garland-was-a-repeat-moderator-for-federalist-society-events.html](https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/civpro/2016/03/judge-merrick-garland-was-a-repeat-moderator-for-federalist-society-events.html) ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2987 "2022-03-04T16:38:02Z")
A new Washington Post story about Roger Stone and January 6th broke today. Apparently, Stone had filmmakers following him around and documenting his efforts to overturn the election. [https://wapo.st/3pCbjBe](https://wapo.st/3pCbjBe) (This is a gifted link, it’s free) And here’s a rather long quote from the middle of the story _As he left Washington, stone lobbied for Trump to enact “the Stone Plan”, — a blanket presidential pardon to shield himself, Trump’s allies in Congress and “The America First” movement from prosecution for trying to overturn the election, according to the footage and additional documents reviewed by the Post._ _But the plan, along with the bid by Stone to win pardons for the other Trump backers including convicted mobsters, was ultimately thwarted by White House counsel Pat Cippollone, Stone said in several conversation that were filmed._ _”Clearly, Cippollone fucked everybody” Stone told Steven Brown, a friend then in federal prison in Oregon for a fraud conviction, during a call on January 19, 2021. Cippollone was aware of Stone’s requests for pardons and opposed them, according to a person familiar with the situation, who some on the condition on anonymity to discuss confidential matters._ _”See you in prison,” Stone wrote that evening in a message to another Trump associate._ _In an Inauguration Day call with a friend, Stone directed his rage at the man who had confided in him and consulted with him for decades, denouncing Trump as a “disgrace” and expressing support for him to be impeached. “He betrayed everybody” Stone said._ So, my takeaway is that Roger Stone was aware that the efforts to overturn the election were illegal even as he was documenting them. He performed these illegal actions openly because he thought he was getting another pardon. And apparently all of this is on film. And yet, the fix is still in. The Federalist Society lackeys Merrick Garland and Chris Wray have decided that no one will face any consequences for trying to overturn the election and that they’d rather go after Hillary Clinton. For some inexplicable reason Biden is cool with that. Biden’s DOJ is working harder for Trump than his own DOJ ever did. I get it, the director of the FBI is supposed to be a non-partisan position ( even though it is currently filled by the most right-wing partisan actor that they could pass off as neutral) But the position of AG isn’t, and while Biden isn’t supposed to influence individual cases, it’s certainly would not be out of line for him to give a general instruction to prioritize the prosecution of people involved in Stop The Steal. It is becoming increasingly clear that the FBI has no interest in investigating the election theft fraud and DOJ has no intention of prosecuting such crimes. And now we know that even Roger Stone knew he had committed crimes and was convinced that he would be prosecuted. It’s beyond disappointing, I think Biden needs to make some changes. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2988 "2022-03-05T02:45:51Z")
About the boxes at Mara Lardo: somebody, presumably with enough clearance to be in the White House, and who should have known better, carried those boxes out to the truck. They’re as guilty as orange guy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=148) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=150)