# 7 Jan 2021 and beyond - the aftermath of the storming of the Capitol **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 8, 2021, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020 "2021-01-08T10:28:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 150
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2989 "2022-03-05T03:54:30Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > So, my takeaway is that Roger Stone was aware that the efforts to overturn the election were illegal even as he was documenting them. Revolutions are only illegal if you lose. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2022, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2990 "2022-03-05T04:12:59Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Revolutions are only illegal if you lose. And sometimes not even then. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2991 "2022-03-07T14:59:58Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > About the boxes at Mara Lardo: somebody, presumably with enough clearance to be in the White House, and who should have known better, carried those boxes out to the truck. They’re as guilty as orange guy. Do we actually know this happened? I’ve heard speculation these files might have been held at Maralago in a SCIF (Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility) during the Trump presidency and simply not transferred back when they should have been. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2992 "2022-03-07T15:05:59Z")
Sounds legit. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2993 "2022-03-07T16:54:55Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > I’ve heard speculation these files might have been held at Maralago in a SCIF (Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility) during the Trump presidency and simply not transferred back when they should have been. A distinction without a difference. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2994 "2022-03-07T18:24:06Z")
A very big difference, actually. We’re talking about two scenarios: 1. Classified documents properly stored in a secure facility at Maralago remained in that secure facility when they were supposed to be transferred to another secure facility. Eventually somebody noticed this and initiated the transfer. 2. Classified documents were packed up in boxes at the White House when Trump was moving out, and insecurely and illegally transferred to Maralago where they were stored in a random warehouse/office/bathroom. The first is basic incompetence, but is merely an administrative oversight. It is not a security breach. This is a minor, minor problem in the big scheme of things. The second is a serious national security matter and displays high levels of disregard for classified material. If true, it would be shockingly bad. The stories have all been “classified documents found at Maralago” and without further details I think the first scenario is far more likely. I haven’t seen any stories with enough detail to confirm that the second is what actually happened. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2995 "2022-03-07T18:37:19Z")
This… > [@jsc1953](#): > > One of the Oath Keepers has plead guilty to seditious conspiracy and is cooperating with the prosecution. … is related to this… > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > A new Washington Post story about Roger Stone and January 6th broke today. Apparently, Stone had filmmakers following him around and documenting his efforts to overturn the election. Joshua James, who pleaded guilty to seditious conspiracy, spent an awful lot of Jan 5 and 6 in the company of Roger Stone. And all that shit’s on tape. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2996 "2022-03-07T18:37:35Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > A very big difference, actually. Either Trump (or someone on his behalf) took classified documents, or had a responsibility to return classified documents and didn’t do it. In either case, Trump was in possession of classified material he shouldn’t have had. Failing to return them is not just some administrative oversight. A distinction without a difference. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2997 "2022-03-07T18:50:11Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > The stories have all been “classified documents found at Maralago” and without further details I think the first scenario is far more likely. I haven’t seen any stories with enough detail to confirm that the second is what actually happened. The first scenario assumes that Trump cared enough about his job to bring work “home” after hours. I ain’t buying that for a minute. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2998 "2022-03-07T19:08:12Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > I’ve heard speculation these files might have been held at Maralago in a SCIF (Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility) during the Trump presidency and simply not transferred back when they should have been. Cite for this? ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/2999 "2022-03-07T19:16:04Z")
Cite for speculation? That’s why I asked the question, because I’m wondering if there was ever any decent reporting that clarified what actually happened. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/3000 "2022-03-07T19:21:29Z")
OK, where did you hear this speculation? A reliable source? Your neighbor? Brother-in-law? Because I’ve not heard anything like this until now. Heck, I’d never heard of a SCIF until you mentioned it. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/3001 "2022-03-07T19:51:35Z")
I prefer not to share the source of this speculation. But consider the following: This article tells us that Maralago has/had a SCIF: > **[What this photo of Trump's war room tells us | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/07/politics/white-house-photo-syria-briefing/)** > > The photo, showing Trump and top advisors at national security briefing, parallels Situation Room photo from Obama era This is a typical article about the 15 boxes: **National Archives: Trump Took Classified Items to Mar-A-Lago** > **[National Archives: Trump Took Classified Items to Mar-A-Lago](https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2022-02-18/archivist-trump-took-classified-documents-to-mar-a-lago)** > > Classified information has been found in the 15 boxes of White House records that were stored at former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence. But if you actually read the article, the headline is innacurate. They say the boxes were _found_ at Maralago. And that they were _stored_ at Maralago. There is no source saying that those documents were transferred there after Trump left office. Everybody (including the headline writer) just assumes they were. Far more likely, these things were securely stored from during Trump’s presidency and somebody was incompetent. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/3002 "2022-03-07T19:55:20Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > There is no source saying that those documents were transferred there after Trump left office. Everybody (including the headline writer) just assumes they were. Far more likely, these things were securely stored from during Trump’s presidency and somebody was incompetent. You very well may be correct. Thanks for the clarification. And, yes, it’s more than speculation that somebody was incompetent. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/3003 "2022-03-07T20:09:36Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > And, yes, it’s more than speculation that somebody was incompetent. Well, it’s also possible Trump said to a lackey, “Pack up all these documents and ship them to Maralago” knowing perfectly well and not caring that they were classified. Which I would call malice, not incompetence. But that’s also speculation given the known facts. But I think in this case incompetence is most likely, and it may not even be Trump who was incompetent (at least not directly). ETA: I just realized this whole conversation has been a pretty big hijack. Sorry, everybody. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/3004 "2022-03-07T21:11:49Z")
Has the US recovered the documents? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/3005 "2022-03-07T22:09:44Z")
Someone could ask Trump how and why the documents got there. However, Trump is nothing but a liar, so that won’t work. I guess baseless speculation is going to have to do. I submit that antifa planted them there. Or AOC. Someone opposed to facism. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/3006 "2022-03-08T04:07:00Z")
I find it hard to believe that there would have been a SCIF at Mar-a-Loco. The place was a country club, basically, with all kind of rich low-lifes milling around. Security would have been very difficult. Trump was already known to have discussed classified materials at a table in the dining room, in the midst of other guests. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/3007 "2022-03-08T14:29:51Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I find it hard to believe that there would have been a SCIF at Mar-a-Loco. I don’t think there’s really any doubt it existed. News reports that mention it: - [Trump in Palm Beach: Mar-a-Lago’s SCIF, JFK’s bunker and keeping national security secure](https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/politics/2019/11/05/trump-in-palm-beach-mar-a-lagos-scif-jfks-bunker-and-keeping-national-security-secure/2359130007/) - [https://www.newschannel5.com/news/national/recent-trespassing-incidents-raise-questions-about-security-at-mar-a-lago](https://www.newschannel5.com/news/national/recent-trespassing-incidents-raise-questions-about-security-at-mar-a-lago) - [Mar-a-Lago Florida: Everything we know about Trump’s new home | The Independent](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-mar-a-lago-history-palm-beach-florida-b1780645.html) How assiduously it was used is another matter, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/3008 "2022-03-08T14:34:14Z")
Isn’t it standard to build such a facility at whatever private house the president in office has? So there would have been one at GWB’s ranch or Reagan’s ranch or Obama’s house in Chicago. I think they also set up secure communications facilities and housing for the secret service. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=149) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=151)