# 7 Jan 2021 and beyond - the aftermath of the storming of the Capitol **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 8, 2021, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020 "2021-01-08T10:28:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/382 "2021-01-12T19:47:36Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > It would be really nice, but the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, and Republican legislators have shown themselves, time and time again, to be cowards. Yes, certainly. But they also would personally prefer for him to disappear. He mucks everything up for them as well as us. They just don’t want their fingerprints on it. ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/383 "2021-01-12T19:47:40Z")
Valued at $1000. I guess he could get damage to federal property charges. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, Congress could take away his pension, Secret Service detail, and ban him from ever holding office again. That is way more than symbolic. Would really love to see this happen. We citizens have already paid dearly both monetarily and otherwise from this presidency. Do we have to pay him even MORE in money, goods, and services while he will still be doing all he can to further hamper our government even after he’s out? I don’t want the taxpayer to give that family one more red cent after he’s out. We’ve already paid him more than enough to pay off his outstanding loans. Let’s not be the new Deutschebank (except he doesn’t even have to pay US back). 😡 ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/384 "2021-01-12T19:51:04Z")
Here’s some aftermath-type news: > **[FBI report warned of ‘war’ at Capitol, contradicting claims there was no...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/capitol-riot-fbi-intelligence/2021/01/12/30d12748-546b-11eb-a817-e5e7f8a406d6_story.html)** > > An internal FBI report reviewed by The Post is the starkest evidence yet of the sizable intelligence failure that preceded last week’s mayhem. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/385 "2021-01-12T19:51:48Z")
> [@Skypist](#): > > Valued at $1000. I guess he could get damage to federal property charges. Trump’s own executive order in June stated that U.S. government policy is to prosecute vandalism of Federal property to the fullest extent of the law, emphasizing that the maximum sentence under existing statute is 10 years. I’m not suggesting that is a commensurate punishment for moving a lectern, but I fully endorse the FBI and DOJ using the threat of it to scare the shit out of these people in the process of gathering evidence of more serious crimes that took place or may have been planned. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/386 "2021-01-12T19:52:11Z")
Just to be clear: I’d support the impeachment if I thought the senate would do it, but they won’t and we know that. I worry that another failed impeachment that drags on past his term would make democrats look vindictive and distracted. The people already delivered the verdict that matters most, which is his loss in the election. Not impeaching won’t prevent a Biden Justice Department from investigating his crimes or the crimes of his associates, and those should be fully investigated and prosecuted. I think what I’m saying is that Democrats need to understand that they don’t have unlimited ammunition; they have to pick their political battles carefully. I don’t care about symbolism; we don’t have time to waste on symbolic victories which could turn into even bigger symbolic defeats. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/387 "2021-01-12T19:56:57Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Does the political will really exist to convinct him, though? It would be really nice, but the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, and Republican legislators have shown themselves, time and time again, to be cowards. Not even close. Republicans will not vote to convict, save Romney and maybe Murkowski. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/388 "2021-01-12T20:02:21Z")
That’s the problem; there’s no chance of a conviction. The Dems have to use the power that they have not the power they wish they had. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/389 "2021-01-12T20:03:00Z")
I’m going to refrain from making that call until _after_ Biden is in. If there are enough state problems over the next week and a major ruckus in DC, I could see enough Republicans figuring that their only chance at long-term political survival is to convict. I’m not counting on it, but then I buy lottery tickets on occasion too. Blind luck sometimes smiles. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/390 "2021-01-12T20:05:48Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > What happened to the laptop that was stolen from Nancy Pelosi’s office? I’m not half as worried about the laptop that was stolen as I am about the ones that weren’t stolen – but which may have had malware inserted into them. > [@enipla](#): > > if impeached and convicted he can never run for public office again. I think that has to be voted separately. However, if they do manage to convict him, the votes needed to do that should be in comparison easy to come by. > [@asahi](#): > > I don’t care about symbolism I do. The way to make behavior unacceptable is through symbolism. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/391 "2021-01-12T20:10:41Z")
I agree that things could eventually get so bad that the country wakes up and realizes what a danger not just Trump but Republicans are to the country. But we’re unfortunately not there yet. We may not be there for a while. Even after the day of the siege, there were 147 congressmen who basically called the election invalid – there are probably numerous others who considered it. In essence, we have at least 30% of the congress that is fully on board with using legislative and political procedures to outright steal an election – even after a riot that threatened the lives of their colleagues and the pro-Trump vice president. We have to know what we’re dealing with here: Republicans are not a political party; they are an organization of illiberal radicals. They will not be persuaded by decency, and they won’t even be persuaded by a solid majority of voters or citizens who oppose them - because to them, we don’t matter. What matters is their ideology and their followers, and they just need enough of them to take the country by force. ---
**Author:** ![RyanAdam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@RyanAdam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyanAdam)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/392 "2021-01-12T20:15:25Z")
[European diplomats refuse to meet Pompeo - he cancels](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-pompeo-europe-exclusive/exclusive-luxembourg-eu-snub-pompeo-in-final-europe-trip-diplomats-say-idUSKBN29H2MM), excellent as he deserves to be Persona Non Grata for his insurrectionists enabling ---
**Author:** ![RyanAdam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@RyanAdam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyanAdam)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/393 "2021-01-12T20:16:34Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Republicans are not a political party; they are an organization of illiberal radicals We are not, not yet ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/394 "2021-01-12T20:18:21Z")
Yes, yes you are; maybe not you individually, but your party most certainly is – and the only way this cancer stops is for people who care about its old values, leave. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/395 "2021-01-12T20:18:31Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > We have to know what we’re dealing with here: Republicans are not a political party; they are an organization of illiberal radicals. The evidence of history tells us that such movements don’t usually just up and decide to cancel themselves. They have to be destroyed with force, either internal or external. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/396 "2021-01-12T20:21:14Z")
Yep – pretty much. I think that someone or a group of people will end up doing something so reprehensible that it repulses people…or they will eventually succeed in a radical takeover of the United States. One of these two things is going to happen: they are not going to just have a change of heart. Too late for that now. Too many hyper-ambitious people who are willing to do anything to win power, at any cost, and who see an illiberal, radicalized Republican party as their vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/397 "2021-01-12T20:25:18Z")
anyone watching the DOJ and FBI press conference on the coup attempt? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/398 "2021-01-12T20:26:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, Congress could take away his … Secret Service detail Not necessarily. > [@](#): > > Would Trump lose Secret Service protection if he was removed from office? It is not clear – to us or to two legal experts we consulted, law professors [Stephen Vladeck](https://law.utexas.edu/faculty/stephen-i-vladeck) and [Josh Blackman](https://www.stcl.edu/about-us/faculty/josh-blackman/). > > There are two relevant laws that use different language on who counts as a “former president.” > > One law, the Former Presidents Act we mentioned earlier, specifically says that a president who gets booted by the Senate does not count as a “former president” for the purpose of certain post-presidency perks. > > However, another [law](https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-congress/house-bill/6620) signed by Obama [in 2013](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-restores-lifetime-secret-service-for-former-presidents/), the Former Presidents Protection Act, simply authorizes lifetime Secret Service protection for former presidents – without defining “former president” in any particular way. > > It is not clear which definition the federal government or the courts would use when it came to deciding whether an impeached and removed Trump should get lifetime Secret Service protection. (The Secret Service did not respond to a request for comment.) From here: [https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/11/politics/fact-check-tweet-trump-impeachment-run-2024-secret-service/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/11/politics/fact-check-tweet-trump-impeachment-run-2024-secret-service/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/399 "2021-01-12T20:29:19Z")
Some possible consequences to Trump. His largest bank lender will no longer be lending to him, his advisors are saying he may face civil charges for the riots, NY is considering pulling all federal contracts for a total of $17M, and the PGA is pulling one of its tournaments from his golf course. In true Trump fashion, the golf tournament is what he’s most upset about. > **[Donald Trump’s biggest lender, Deutsche Bank, will reportedly no longer do...](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/international-business/us-business/article-donald-trumps-biggest-lender-deutsche-bank-will-reportedly-no-longer/)** > > Deutsche Bank will not do business in the future with U.S. President Donald Trump or his companies in the wake of his supporters’ assault on the U.S. Capitol, The New York Times reported > **[Trump has been told he could face massive damages for the Capitol riot even...](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-told-expect-civil-damages-capitol-riot-report-2021-1?op=1&scrolla=5eb6d68b7fedc32c19ef33b4&utm_source=reddit.com)** > > The former NFL star OJ Simpson was found not guilty of murder in 1994 but was later sued for millions of dollars in civil lawsuits. [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/new-york-city-to-consider-ending-contracts-with-trump-that-bring-his-company-dollar17-million-a-year/ar-BB1cFsUT](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/new-york-city-to-consider-ending-contracts-with-trump-that-bring-his-company-dollar17-million-a-year/ar-BB1cFsUT) > **[PGA of America announces it is pulling 2022 PGA Championship from Trump...](https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ny-trump-pga-20210111-fuhl7lmvdfdgtdcckyegq3sw7u-story.html)** > > President Trump will have plenty of time to play golf soon - and now he will have one of his famous courses all to himself. > **[Trump is reportedly more upset about his club not hosting a golf tournament...](https://www.businessinsider.com/trumps-angrier-about-not-hosting-golf-tournament-vs-impeachment-nyt-2021-1)** > > The president was "gutted" after the PGA pulled its 2022 championship from his golf course, according to The New York Times. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/400 "2021-01-12T20:30:44Z")
While impeaching wouldn’t in itself ban him from a second run – he’d need to be convicted, and a ban from holding federal office would have to be voted separatly – impeachment is necessary in order to so ban him. Being convicted of crimes in courts other than the Senate doesn’t do it, even if they’re felonies. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/401 "2021-01-12T20:38:24Z")
I’m in favor of all the other impeachment punishments but I think he should keep the SS protection. The last thing we want is some left-wing wacko turning him into a martyr. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=21)