# 7 Jan 2021 and beyond - the aftermath of the storming of the Capitol **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 8, 2021, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020 "2021-01-08T10:28:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 218
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2023, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4351 "2023-07-09T15:51:08Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > The issue wasn’t that they were advocating for an unpopular opinion or making highly unusual arguments. I’m not saying that they were. But when a lawyer advances that as a defence to a professional discipline charge, the discipline authorities have to investigate it extremely thoroughly, to make sure there is no merit to that defence, since it goes to the core of what lawyers are sometimes expected to do. ---
**Author:** ![pirviii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pirviii/32/3233_2.png) [@pirviii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pirviii)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4352 "2023-07-10T02:17:26Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > most of the hearing had to do with affidavits and documents that they had submitted as evidence without performing any due diligence on the contents, material that was deeply flawed bullshit. I think they were hoping for a Trump friendly judge that would just agree with their BS so they could push forward with the overturning of the election. When that didn’t pan out 60+ times, they quite trying legally and just kept up the lies in the media, which led to Jan 6th. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4353 "2023-07-10T13:16:58Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Because revoking a bar license means basically taking away someone’s livelihood > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Disbarment is a form of career death. I’m sure these statements are true for ordinary lawyers, but how much of these jokers’ current and future income is actually tied to practicing law? Forget Rudy, he’s an old drunk, but can’t Eastman, Powell and others still capitalize on their infamy for speaking and consultant gigs as non-lawyers? ISTM there are plenty of rightwing organizations and businesses that would pay them. Unless, of course, they’re in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4354 "2023-07-10T13:35:41Z")
Yes, they might make some money on the MAGAblab circuit, but their careers up to now have been through the practice of law (not so much with Rudy lately), and if disbarred, that’s the end of that. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4355 "2023-07-10T15:14:34Z")
Plus, the investigative process has to be the same for all lawyers accused of misconduct. It’s a quasi-judicial process and everyone has the same procedural and substantive rights. The investigators can’t start letting up standards for some lawyers because of who they are. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4356 "2023-07-10T17:26:03Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Correct. You have no ethical obligation to continue to represent a client who insists you put forward a case that you know, or ought to know, is spurious. Indeed, you _should_ walk away. I also suspect that this is the reason for so many attorneys bailing on Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4357 "2023-07-10T19:23:24Z")
I’m sure they also prefer to work for someone who might actually pay them. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4358 "2023-07-10T19:49:46Z")
It’s like artists. “You get paid in exposure. Your name will be in the headlines! Reporters will ask you questions and you’ll be on the nightly news! Maybe even a reality show!” ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4359 "2023-07-10T19:56:05Z")
This could go into any of at least three threads: Ray Epps, who was at the Capitol insurrection but did not go inside, is planning on suing Fox News for defamation. It seems Tucker Carlson accused him multiple times of being a government provacateur. He then started to get death threats: (gift link) > **[The Case That Could Be Fox’s Next Dominion](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/10/business/media/fox-news-defamation-ray-epps-tucker-carlson.html?unlocked_article_code=8U20ihXYdrtTMRcu9b1_jZtQ7KBIvvcmPo90vRZzHX1gVGhngDfegWhYFoGK80wB4_iOvt_MgZEsCYfo8bPt--GfYY6cw4UVGpjj4Bq6ZZrtKxOszsnMMKulyS77rdZREiattJa5Q8qpSGxixkON2teNULJEk7GYc5oQNqH8EQAZimO2nKJGZkNUI7OeBfBGv-bG0x9mnWq4vX4Jp0Kj3hfITXA7H0bGg1eIK8PeF4Lr-ldQMmGVBXvhkw9dgFwAhlfZjUK2IpMkJFBEQB_TJmK2IrWvsNVWlAxWTLFqgs4CJ-MUvTFNSKJRbWiTXAqVLejxuOooC7ny1VFipKnKTkyBSpLBnvkKfGJWUms2ekypzMq0bt2ZVihRPHLa&smid=url-share)** > > Tucker Carlson, before he was sidelined by Fox, repeatedly endorsed a conspiracy theory about an Arizona man, who may sue for defamation. Legal experts say it would be a viable case. Oops, did not mean to followup the @Skywatcher post. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4360 "2023-07-10T20:30:56Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > if disbarred, that’s the end of that. Isn’t that the end of that in only the state/jurisdiction that disbarred them? There’s a lot of states. Rudy is maybe getting disbarred in DC, but I’d bet he’s licensed in (say) New York. No? Is there disbarment reciprocity? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4361 "2023-07-10T20:37:28Z")
I don’t know if Giuliani has yet been disbarred in New York, but he is presently suspended from practicing law in that state. If not yet disbarred, I’m sure that’s coming. There is no reciprocity in disbarments so far as I’m aware. Each state conducts its own review. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4362 "2023-07-10T20:53:35Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > There is no reciprocity in disbarments so far as I’m aware. But doesn’t a lawyer have to be admitted to the bar in each individual state before she/he can practice law in that state? IOW, there’s also no reciprocity in bar admissions either. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4363 "2023-07-10T21:00:36Z")
So far as I know – You’re exactly right. No reciprocity in either case. You’re admitted to the bar per state on a case-by-case basis, and you are likewise disbarred if you suffer disbarment proceedings in each state to which you were admitted to practice law. There are some courtesy rules that allow for limited or temporary appearances in some states, but that’s not a license to practice. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4364 "2023-07-10T22:11:41Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > It’s like artists. “You get paid in exposure. The counter for that is, “You can die from exposure.” I’m supposed to feel sorry for the dirt bags who can’t make the big bux lawyering any more? Let them try the gig economy like so many others _have_ to. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4365 "2023-07-10T23:12:54Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > The counter for that is, “You can die from exposure.” **Emily** : _Well, it’s not as if we’re not gonna get out of here. I mean, it’s just a matter of when._ **Bob** : _I don’t know, Emily. I heard about this guy, uh, photographer, accidentally locked himself in his darkroom while he was developing pictures. No one… No one knew he was there. No one went to look for him. Last time he was ever heard from._ **Emily** : _Really? What happened to him?_ **Bob** : _Found him a month later. He’d died of exposure._ **Emily** : _Come on, Bob._ **Bob** : _Not a pretty picture, Emily._ ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4366 "2023-07-11T00:51:21Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > You’re exactly right. No reciprocity in either case. You’re admitted to the bar per state on a case-by-case basis That’s not the case. Some states have reciprocity to practice with other states. > **[Bar Reciprocity By State: The Most Comprehensive List](https://www.clio.com/resources/bar-reciprocity/)** > > Read the most comprehensive resource on bar reciprocity by state to easily see where you can practice, with alternatives to reciprocity. For example, if you’re admitted to the bar in California, [you can practive law in CO, DC, IL, IN, IA, ME, MD, MA, MI, MN, MT, NE, ND, OH, OR, TN, TX, VT, WA, and WI](https://www.clio.com/resources/bar-reciprocity/ca/) Rudy’s suspended NY law license would have let him practice in AK, AZ, AR, CO, CT, DC, GA, ID, IL, IN, IA, KS, KY, ME, MD, MA, MI, MN, MS, MO, MT, NE, NH, NJ, NM, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, SD, TN, TX, UT, VT, VA, WA, WV, WI, WY. I don’t know if it still does given his status, but maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4367 "2023-07-11T00:56:32Z")
Ah, ok. Which is why I said, “So far as I know.” My experience is in California. The reciprocity you’re talking about only goes one way. No one practicing in any other state can practice in California. That information is included in your cite. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4368 "2023-07-11T01:02:14Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > I don’t know if it still does given his status, but maybe. I would argue almost certainly not. If the gateway to practice in all those other states is the law license in New York, then it would logically follow that losing that license would prohibit practice in those other states as well. No license, no practice. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4369 "2023-07-11T01:07:23Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I would argue almost certainly not. If the gateway to practice in all those other states is the law license in New York, then it would logically follow that losing that license would prohibit practice in those other states as well. No license, no practice Yeah, I don’t know. He’s still a member of the NY bar so ¯\_(ツ)\_/¯ ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4370 "2023-07-11T01:09:16Z")
It’s pretty \< pregnant pause to use a much-overused word in our current politics \>… unprecedented. In any case, my guess is Rudy isn’t exactly fighting off clients demanding his services with a stick. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=217) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=219)