# 7 Jan 2021 and beyond - the aftermath of the storming of the Capitol **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 8, 2021, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020 "2021-01-08T10:28:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 239
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4771 "2023-09-14T16:47:07Z")
A ultra-MAGA view of “real America” is some gauzy fiction of a “Leave it to Beaver” world that never actually existed of exclusively nuclear families comprised of a working dad, subservient stay-at-home mom, and children who are completely and happily under the rule of their parents. A world where “the coloreds” are _perfectly fine people_ as long as they keep themselves to themselves and exist according to the rules and standards laid out for them. A world with no gay people, no sex before marriage, no women’s lib, and dinner at the table every night at 6pm. A world where a (white, straight) man could feed his family with an excellent job that required only a high school diploma and a can-do attitude. Everybody goes to church on Sunday (any flavor of Christian Protestant is fine), everybody venerates our police and elected officials, and everybody is a model citizen. Norman Rockwell’s America. And all of that is bring ruined and subverted by the people who don’t matter, the women and the gays and the coloreds and the foreigners who are trying to remake America into a hellhole of lawless anarchy. Everything would be just fine if _they_ weren’t always agitating to change things. \*\*I feel dirty even writing that out, because it’s utter bullshit from beginning to end, but i know a regrettable number of people who feel exactly that way. They “have nothing against” gay people, but _ **why** _ do they need to flaunt their nasty deviance around everyone and demand “special treatment”? They “have nothing against” Black people, but **why** are they _always_ pulling the race card and demanding “special treatment”? You wouldn’t have to worry about crime or abortion or gay people if you just let God back into schools so that kids grow up with the “right morals”. It’s all this “equality” that is ruining America. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4772 "2023-09-14T17:34:56Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > Those may be reasons why people were primed to believe the lie, but given belief in the lie the result is not surprising. I think we may be largely be in agreement. The MAGA crowd didn’t have a collegial relationship with the Dems, viewing them as honorable opposition, when suddenly—BAM! They stole the election! It was years of belief in an existential crisis created by an evil opposition, one focused on the complete destruction of the true America. This was capped by an evidence-free lie that these villains stole the election that would have saved the Republic, if only Trump had not been cheated. It’s all inseparable. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4773 "2023-09-14T18:04:07Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > There’s also the prospect some are so far gone with the delusion and worship even if Trump confesses that he lost in 2020 they won’t even believe him at this point. Look at [how they reacted](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-booed-alabama-rally-after-telling-supporters-get-vaccinated-n1277404) when he tried at a rally to speak positively about vaccination; they booed him. They’re that far gone into Bizarro World. ETA: Ninja’d by @Procrustus, sigh. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4774 "2023-09-14T18:28:35Z")
He flipped over a rock and found maggots. And they are now out of control. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4775 "2023-09-14T19:21:53Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > ‘Equal rights for all does not mean fewer rights for you. It’s not pie.’ “But I want to [continue to] have the right to convert other people’s gay kids and not do business with n\*\*\*\*\*s.” That’s what they consider rights, so in that sense, they _are_ losing out. And good thing too. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4776 "2023-09-14T19:45:50Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I listen to Right Wing radio to _try_ to understand, and they actually say (constantly) that the Democrat [sic] agenda is to destroy our civilization. I don’t, or at least I do very little. It annoys me too much. At least they don’t seem to be actively spreading dangerous medical information like they were a couple of years ago, they have other things to gripe about, but it still gets under my skin. But today I was swapping through stations on my drive home and I listened long enough to catch one RW host saying that the Democrats are constantly punching and it’s time that the Republicans finally punch back. (I think it was about the Biden impeachment investigation, though again I couldn’t stomach it long enough to listen for long.) They really just say whatever pops in their head and will rile people up the most. It’s no wonder 1/6 happened. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4777 "2023-09-14T23:09:33Z")
> [@MulderMuffin](#): > > Norman Rockwell’s America > **[The Problem We All Live With](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Problem_We_All_Live_With)** > > The Problem We All Live With is a 1964 painting by Norman Rockwell that is considered an iconic image of the Civil Rights Movement in the United States. It depicts Ruby Bridges, a six-year-old African-American girl, on her way to William Frantz Elementary School, an all-white public school, on November 14, 1960, during the New Orleans school desegregation crisis. Because of threats of violence against her, she is escorted by four deputy U.S. marshals; the painting is framed so that the marsha Th... Omg; Rockwell’s gone woke! ---
**Author:** ![abcdefghij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@abcdefghij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abcdefghij)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4778 "2023-09-15T00:01:58Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > That is literally the opposite of ‘stealing an election’. That’s ‘winning an election’. I was responding to > [@tofor](#): > > …what would have happened if Trump won and 50+% of democrats **believed** … (emphasis mine) A large percentage of Democrats do believe (with some cause) that each of those was “stolen”, and yet they didn’t riot (and nothing that BLM or Antifa ever did even comes close to storming the Capitol) ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4779 "2023-09-15T11:51:09Z")
Trump has said he could have pardoned himself about 1/6 and election interference. before he left office but chose against it. However, he didn’t rule out doing it if he was re-elected. Story/interview here (I will say I didn’t watch the whole thing): [Donald Trump says it's 'very unlikely' he'd pardon himself if elected](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-unlikely-pardon-convicted-presidency-meet-the-press-rcna104779) ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4780 "2023-09-15T12:20:36Z")
> [@abcdefghij](#): > > A large percentage of Democrats do believe (with some cause) that each of those was “stolen”, and yet they didn’t riot (and nothing that BLM or Antifa ever did even comes close to storming the Capitol) And a significant number of MAGA followers are confused as to why Trump has been charged for saying the election was rigged by Hillary wasn’t. It’s frustrating, because it’s as if a lot of them didn’t bother looking at any of the indictments agains him. Smith’s first indictment even acknowledges that Mr. Trump has the right to question the election, to lie about it even, and it goes on to explain point-for-point the charges. None of the charges are about challenging or lying about the election. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4781 "2023-09-15T13:21:08Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > And a significant number of MAGA followers are confused … Understatement of the year. 😜 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4782 "2023-09-15T13:54:06Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Trump has said he could have pardoned himself about 1/6 and election interference. before he left office but chose against it. However, he didn’t rule out doing it if he was re-elected. Story/interview here (I will say I didn’t watch the whole thing): [Donald Trump says it’s ‘very unlikely’ he’d pardon himself if elected](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-unlikely-pardon-convicted-presidency-meet-the-press-rcna104779) [Trump May Have ‘Secretly’ Pardoned Himself While President | Opinion](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-may-have-secretly-pardoned-himself-while-president-opinion/ar-AA1gLvzw) > Despite saying “it would look terrible,” it is still possible that Trump is currently sitting on a “secret” pardon that forgives him for any federal offenses he may have committed related to the January 6 attack on the Capitol. Before leaving office, he may have signed a clemency warrant that forgives any federal offenses committed up to the date of its issuance. Although pardons are usually recorded with the Pardon Attorney in the Department of Justice, nothing requires it. Trump may have quietly granted himself a pardon as an insurance policy against legal prosecution. Clemency does not require action from another branch of the federal government, so Trump could have easily acted on his own. However, a pardon issued while he was still president in January 2021 would not help Trump with any federal offenses he may have committed after the pardon was granted. Legal complications related to the classified documents snafu occurred after he left office and would not be covered by a “secret” pardon. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4783 "2023-09-15T14:02:03Z")
If the man is sitting on a pardon, he would have pulled it out by now. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4784 "2023-09-15T14:07:38Z")
Sooo, (if true) he’s admitting he committed a crime? One that required his pardon? And that the whole insurrection was unwarranted? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4785 "2023-09-15T14:14:54Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Trump May Have ‘Secretly’ Pardoned Himself While President | Opinion If a pardon falls in the woods and nobody is around does it really make a sound? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4786 "2023-09-15T14:38:00Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > If a pardon falls in the woods and nobody is around does it really make a sound? I have a Pardon I Never Promised me the Rose Garden. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4787 "2023-09-15T15:19:24Z")
Just a WAG, but I would think that if the SCOTUS was on the fence about whether or not the POTUS could self-pardon, a secret self-pardon that was held as a “get out of jail free” card to use at some undisclosed point in the future would be a great way to demonstrate how that’s a very bad idea. That seems like a clever method to get them to rule against it. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4788 "2023-09-15T15:34:53Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > man is sitting on a pardon, he would have pulled it out by now. “I can pardon myself anytime just by thinking about it” ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4789 "2023-09-15T21:28:34Z")
his threat to democracy not just in US– Brazil’s Supreme Court on Thursday handed a 17-year prison sentence to a supporter of former President Jair Bolsonaro who stormed top government offices on Jan. 8 in an alleged bid to forcefully restore the right-wing leader to office. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4790 "2023-09-16T06:51:44Z")
> **[Trump lawyer Jenna Ellis turns on ‘malignant narcissist’ ex-president](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/sep/15/trump-lawyer-jenna-ellis)** > > Ellis, one of 18 Trump associates charged in Georgia election subversion case, says she ‘simply can’t support him’ again “Ellis, one of 18 Trump associates charged in Georgia election subversion case, says she ‘simply can’t support him’ again. The Donald Trump lawyer who like the former president faces criminal charges regarding attempted election subversion in his defeat by Joe Biden in 2020 – says she will not vote for him in the future because he is a “malignant narcissist” who cannot admit mistakes.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=238) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=240)