# 7 Jan 2021 and beyond - the aftermath of the storming of the Capitol **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 8, 2021, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020 "2021-01-08T10:28:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2021, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/925 "2021-01-27T19:18:17Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > Nebraska/Maine type legislation to Nebraskan here. Just for the record, I don’t see a problem with our electoral vote system. It’s more representative. Biden got 1 of our 5 electoral votes. You’d rather Trump got all five? ---
**Author:** ![squidfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@squidfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squidfood)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2021, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/926 "2021-01-27T19:31:52Z")
> [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > Biden got 1 of our 5 electoral votes. You’d rather Trump got all five? Doing it by geographic district (and not % of overall voters) would compound the problem of gerrymandering in presidential electors as well as the House. Statewide in Nebraska, Biden got 40% of the vote so the token 1/5 - sure it’s nice but it should be 2/5 if done correctly. (and this would be compounded if done across the country). ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2021, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/927 "2021-01-27T19:39:12Z")
> [@squidfood](#): > > sure it’s nice but it should be 2/5 if done correctly. (and this would be compounded if done across the country). Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2021, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/928 "2021-01-27T19:46:23Z")
It’s a problem if implemented nationally because of the way districts are gerrymandered by Republican majority state legislatures. It’s a particular problem in states like the ones I mentioned (plus maybe North Carolina) where there are statewide Dem majorities but districted in such a way as to ensure GOP majorities in the House delegations. There are no states that I can think of where the opposite is true. To be fair, that’s a problem with the urban/rural voting divide as much as it is unfair districting practices; but Republicans will never countenance a system that results in more representative overall results. If PA/WI/MI adopt the Nebraska system for awarding electoral votes, the Democratic candidate could once again sweep all three of those states but earn almost 30 fewer EVs than in '20. This practically epitomizes the problems our system has with fair representation. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2021, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/929 "2021-01-27T19:50:53Z")
Is there a breakdown of what the result would have been if every state apportioned like NE/ME? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2021, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/930 "2021-01-27T19:53:25Z")
As noted, there are problems with gerrymandering. Besides that, it’s a problem if red states stick with winner-take-all while blue states install a proportional system. This will ensure more Republican electoral votes from the blue states while not allowing more Democratic votes from the red states. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2021, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/931 "2021-01-27T20:01:22Z")
again, all agreed. It was the most we (Ds) could pull off in ® Nebraska and then, even that is due primarily to the astonishing determination and perspicacity of a single stare legislator, defended over his political career. His name is Ernie Chambers. He comes from the same neighborhood in Omaha as Malcolm X. A graduate of Creighton University Law School. You have to watch out for those Jesuits. Rabble rousers all. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2021, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/932 "2021-01-27T20:03:13Z")
The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact is getting closer to coming into force. “As of January 2021, it has been adopted by fifteen states and the District of Columbia. These states have 196 electoral votes, which is 36% of the Electoral College and 73% of the 270 votes needed to give the compact legal force. However, an additional 140 electoral votes are pending, which would allow the compact to have legal force if passed.” That would effectively moot the shenanigans of the states that are considering splitting their electoral votes, assuming none of them are signatories that are considering withdrawing – which it looks like they are not. [National Popular Vote Interstate Compact - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact#:~:text=The%20National%20Popular%20Vote%20Interstate,and%20the%20District%20of%20Columbia). ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/933 "2021-01-27T20:37:22Z")
+1. People are complicated, weird and easily influenced. You too, probably. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2021, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/934 "2021-01-27T22:30:06Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > I’m aware of this conspiracy theory, and it’s been around almost since Biden took the Democratic nomination, and certainly since he named Harris as his running mate. > > But I really don’t get it. Who is in charge, and why Kamala Harris? Why is this shadowy and very powerful group plotting to install Kamala Harris as president? > > I mean, she had a pretty lackluster run for the nomination. I wouldn’t have thought that powerful forces were dedicating themselves to making her president. If they were, wouldn’t they just have made sure she won the primary? > > And I would have expected the conspiracy theory nuts to think the plot was going to bring back Hillary Clinton, or maybe even Barack Obama (since constitutional term limits would obviously mean nothing to them). > > I don’t get it. Harris seems like an unlikely beneficiary of the lizard people or the deep state or whoever is behind this one. You’re overthinking it… If you start with the proposition that “Biden had the best chance of winning, and VP makes little difference” then you can quite easily arrive at: His age etc mitigates against full term From there it’s a very small step to “with a incumbency advantage, would a female VP become first female pres, and if we’re doing that why not arrange it so she serves 10 years” ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2021, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/935 "2021-01-27T22:42:18Z")
I have the nasty suspicion that it’s a way to arouse opposition to Biden by saying ‘he’s trying to sneak a Black person into the presidency! And a woman, at that!’ It’s true that there was a similar conspiracy theory about Clinton, who is white; but Clinton had already been so well established as The Horrible Enemy that she didn’t even need that undertone. As to who ‘they’ is and why ‘they’ want to do such things: ‘they’ is just whoever is/is being talked into believing in the theory is most afraid of. ‘They’ are terrible! ‘They’ don’t need any further motivation than being terrible! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/936 "2021-01-28T02:12:13Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact is getting closer to coming into force. All Blue states. And i dont trust this. Let us say in 2028 Harris wins the popular vote vs trump jr. But then Colorado decides to give it’s votes to trump. Thus throwing the EC to trump. Nothing to stop them. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/937 "2021-01-28T03:23:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Nothing to stop them. Federal law prevents states from changing their electoral college laws between the election and the electoral vote. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/938 "2021-01-28T15:13:00Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Nothing to stop them. What?!? Where were you during the last election? And the weeks after? I know you were here, where this was explained many times. I’m beginning to wonder if you’re asking questions because you truly don’t know the answers (and can’t look them up?), or because you know you’ll get people’s undies in a bundle (I mean, look at me, jumping through your hoop…). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/939 "2021-01-28T17:48:29Z")
Yes, and how about the day before the vote? But so far the compact has dont nothing but help the republican party- on the off chance they win th ePopular but lose the EC. Only Blue states have signed on. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/940 "2021-01-28T17:49:24Z")
> [@digs](#): > > What?!? Where were you during the last election? And the weeks after? I know you were here, where this was explained many times. Yeah? You dont think the republicans can pull some last minute dirty trick? And also, what good does it do, if only Blue states agree? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/941 "2021-01-28T17:52:46Z")
If enough blue states agree to make up 270 votes, then the problem is already solved. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/942 "2021-01-28T17:59:36Z")
Not al all, read the wiki cite _Certain legal questions may affect implementation of the compact. Some legal observers believe states have [plenary power](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plenary_power) to appoint electors as prescribed by the compact; others believe that the compact will require congressional consent under the [Constitution’s](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_States) [Compact Clause](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_One_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Clause_3:_Compact_Clause) or that the presidential election process cannot be altered except by a [constitutional amendment](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Five_of_the_United_States_Constitution)._ So by no means is the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact a sure thing. It will be the target of endless court battles. On legal expert has said it is UnConstitutional-[National Popular Vote Interstate Compact - Ballotpedia](https://ballotpedia.org/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact) _### Unconstitutional_ _ **William G. Ross** , a law professor at Cumberland School of Law at Samford University:[[8]](https://ballotpedia.org/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact#cite_note-8)_ _“ Although the US Supreme Court has concluded that the Compact Clause does not require Congress to consent to compacts that affect only the internal affairs of the compacting states, it has indicated in US Steel Corporation v. Multistate Tax Commission that the Compact Clause requires Congress to consent to an agreement that “would enhance the political power of the member States in a way that encroaches upon the supremacy of the United States,” or “impairs the sovereign rights of non-member states.” …_ _Although the compact would not violate the letter of the Constitution since it would retain the Electoral College and would not alter the method by which electoral votes are assigned or change the number of electoral votes that any state has, it would jettison the federalist structure of the Electoral College to the extent that the popular vote rather than the votes of individual states would determine the outcome. The compact’s reduction of the Electoral College to an empty shell would therefore thwart the intention of the Framers of the original Constitution and the framers of the Twelfth Amendment, which reformed the Electoral College in 1804, since the Constitution clearly contemplates that electoral votes will be cast by the states as states rather than by the states as collective or compacting entities.[[7]](https://ballotpedia.org/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact#cite_note-quotedisclaimer-7) ”_ But another sez Ok. Endless court battles, the entire election thrown to SCOTUS who would then get to pick the President. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/943 "2021-01-28T18:24:41Z")
It was in answer to your question as to what good it does if only blue states agree. If there are enough reliably blue states to make up 270+ electoral votes, which is what is needed before the compact would take effect, then there is no need to worry about red states defecting. If only blue states agree, and it doesn’t make up 270+ electoral votes, then it does not take effect. It does not exist, so it can’t do anything. In any case, as has been mentioned, it is only binding in that they may not change their laws after the election. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2021, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/944 "2021-01-28T19:25:42Z")
Ross’s opinion seems circular: the states _can’t_ arrange to implement a popular vote without amending the Constitution, even though the Constitution says the states can pick their electors however the legislatures choose, and even though the Electoral College would still work exactly as the language of the Constitution states, strictly because the _intent_ of the arrangement is to pick them differently than the Founding Fathers intended. 🤔 As an attorney myself, I’m under the impression that clear statutory (or constitutional) language governs, and things like intent or rules of construction are supposed to be resorted to only when the language is ambiguous or unclear. IMHO, the language “in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct” doesn’t bar legislatures from coordinating the manner they direct. The Constitution originally provided for the legislatures to appoint Senators. Before the 17th Amendment, and despite the clear language that each state’s Senators must be “chosen by the Legislature thereof,” over half the state legislatures eventually bound themselves to implement the popular vote for Senators. As far as I know, that was never found unconstitutional though it seems significantly less supportable constitutionally than the proposed compact. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=48)