# 7 Jan 2021 and beyond - the aftermath of the storming of the Capitol **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 8, 2021, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020 "2021-01-08T10:28:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1166 "2021-02-17T23:03:56Z")
Here’s an excellent in-depth ProPublica article about the security failures on January 6th, with details I haven’t seen before. It also includes a link to Sund’s (head of the Capitol Police) 8 page letter to Nancy Pelosi, dated Feb 1st. > **[“I Don’t Trust the People Above Me”: Riot Squad Cops Open Up About Disastrous...](https://www.propublica.org/article/i-dont-trust-the-people-above-me-riot-squad-cops-open-up-about-disastrous-response-to-capitol-insurrection)** > > Interviews with 19 current and former officers show how failures of leadership and communication put hundreds of Capitol cops at risk and allowed rioters to get dangerously close to members of Congress. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1167 "2021-02-17T23:44:02Z")
Fantastic article. It’s glaringly clear that some layer of leadership deliberately created a scenario where the Capitol Police were understaffed and underprepared for the coming crisis. There are several incredible isolated nuggets sprinkled throughout. One that jumped out at me is that the police were specifically instructed to be on the lookout for _counter_-demonstrators, in contrast to the official advance intelligence that said the main body of Trump protesters was supposed to be harmless. This is an obvious indication that the Trump White House was counting on conflict between Red Hats and the opposition in the streets, which could be used as a pretext for declaring a crisis and appealing for a delay. As we learned from the Time article a few days ago, coordination between opposition groups kept those counter-protesters away, which surprised the Trump planners and left a big hole in their scheme. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1168 "2021-02-18T00:31:32Z")
The Department of Homeland Security employed a now-Russia-based Neo Nazi who was tasked with coordinating the U.S. government’s counterterrorism efforts. > **[Department of Homeland Security Confirms Neo-Nazi Leader Used to Work For It](https://www.vice.com/en/article/epd7wa/department-of-homeland-security-confirms-neo-nazi-leader-used-to-work-for-it)** > > The leader of terror group the Base once worked for an agency tasked with coordinating the U.S. government’s counterterrorism efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1169 "2021-02-18T01:18:25Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The Department of Homeland Security employed a now-Russia-based Neo Nazi who was tasked with coordinating the U.S. government’s counterterrorism efforts. That was back in the Bush II years (DHS confirms 2004-2006) after the invasion of Iraq. Shit ton of sketchy and sometimes unqualified folks were hired as military contractors (see for example the entire Blackwater mercenary firm) during that fucking disaster and most operated with very little direct oversight. From sketchy military operative in a chaotic warzone to Neo-Nazi terrorist shitheel is not an unlikely progression. Sadly I’m sure there was more than one. But barring more information it probably has little to do with anything regarding the Trump administration. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2021, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1170 "2021-02-19T04:42:45Z")
Some Capitol Police officers are under investigation: > **[6 Capitol Police officers suspended, 29 others being investigated for alleged...](https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/18/politics/capitol-police-officers-suspended/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A%2Brss%2Fcnn_allpolitics%2B%28RSS%3A%2BCNN%2B-%2BPolitics%29)** > > Six US Capitol Police officers have been suspended with pay, and 29 others have been placed under investigation, for their actions in the January 6 riot, a department spokesman said Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1171 "2021-02-20T16:20:48Z")
Great attitude, dude: > **[Pennsylvania cop charged in Capitol riot: 'FBI may arrest me ..lol' | CNN...](https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/19/politics/capitol-riot-pennsylvania-cop/index.html)** > > A Pennsylvania police officer is facing criminal charges after posting a video of himself fighting with other officers during the US Capitol insurrection. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2021, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1172 "2021-02-20T17:25:22Z")
I guess he doesn’t realize how much fun Federal prison can be. Make lots of new friends. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2021, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1173 "2021-02-20T17:37:33Z")
Yeah, ex-cops are _always_ welcome there! ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2021, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1174 "2021-02-20T20:57:02Z")
That cop has a weird sense of humor. Losing his job and facing prison gets a lol. I’m wondering why the police chief doesn’t have him on at least suspension or investigation. From that article > [@](#): > > One day after the attack, Fischer allegedly sent a private message to an associate saying, “I may need a job” because “(w)ord got out that I was at the rally…lol.” In the messages, Fischer said he was confronted by his police chief but told him he had “no regrets and give zero sh–s.” > > “The FBI may arrest me …lol,” Fischer told the associate, according to court documents. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1175 "2021-02-21T21:17:23Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Meh, I don’t buy that these were people living paycheck to paycheck. Lots of people have had financial squeezes at least once, and lots of people recover from it Hell, don’t MOST people recover from it? The great majority of us are in some sort in financial squeeze when we’re younger, with limited income, assets, and savvy. Pretty much everyone I know was in some pretty tight fiscal straits at some point, but I’m 49 now and almost everyone I’m familiar with is doing well now; it would be genuinely silly, were I or one of the people I know to engage in bizarre antisocial behaviour, to claim it’s because I had credit card debt in 1997. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1176 "2021-02-21T21:52:09Z")
One of the Oath Keepers in jail for the insurrection claims she had a VIP pass to the rally, met with the Secret Service, and provided security escort to legislators to and from the assault on the Capitol. The Secret Service denies that they were working with private citizens. > **[Oath Keeper claims she was VIP security at Trump rally before riot and says...](https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/21/politics/oath-keepers-vip-security-capitol-riot/index.html)** > > A leader in an alleged Oath Keepers conspiracy in the US Capitol insurrection claims she was given a VIP pass to the pro-Trump rally on January 6, had met with Secret Service agents and was providing security for legislators and others, including in... ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1177 "2021-02-21T23:31:44Z")
Either we’ve got a very interesting scandal on our hands, or we’ve got a raging fabulist RW wacko. Stay tuned. I have to say I’m surprised the Oath Keepers would allow a mere woman into their exalted ranks. Friggin’ morons. Dangerous morons though. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1178 "2021-02-21T23:44:02Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I have to say I’m surprised the Oath Keepers would allow a mere woman into their exalted ranks. Dude, they let a trans [woman in](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/florida-man-charged-with-stealing-speakers-podium/930157/142). Which, hey - credit to them. I guess 🤔. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2021, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1179 "2021-02-21T23:53:02Z")
Well, if you believe the troglodytic folks who say people are the gender/sex they were born into, then Jeremy later Jessica is really a male. Just one with an odd taste in clothes. As long as he/she/they carry the right caliber rifle, they’re in. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1180 "2021-02-22T02:05:03Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > or we’ve got a raging fabulist RW wacko « I’ll take raging fabulist RW wacko for 200, Alex. » ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1181 "2021-02-22T04:37:06Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Either we’ve got a very interesting scandal on our hands, or we’ve got a raging fabulist RW wacko. I’m thinking that we need to start holding people more accountable for their willful ignorance. There’s a legal principle that “ignorance of the law is no excuse” for committing illegal actions, because it’s your duty to learn enough about the law to know whether you’re breaking it. We need a similar principle for ethical evaluation of stupid acts, along the lines of “ignorance of the (readily available) facts is no excuse”. People deliberately wrapping themselves up in disinformation media bubbles and then whining that they didn’t know they were doing anything wrong shouldn’t get a pass on their behavior. If you feel that your “FREEEEEDUM” requires you to voluntarily isolate yourself from common knowledge because you think it’s communist or satanic or whatever, fine. But then you shouldn’t expect to be exempt from the consequences of people negatively judging your dumb behavior when it turns out that your chosen information source was a bunch of pernicious lies. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1182 "2021-02-22T04:45:34Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > There’s a legal principle that “ignorance of the law is no excuse” for committing illegal actions, because it’s your duty to learn enough about the law to know whether you’re breaking it. Not so much. _ **Cheek v. United States** _ , 498 U.S. 192 (1991) would disagree. Also _Lambert v. California_ , 355 U.S. 225 (1957). The courts have ruled that when a _reasonable person_ should know something is illegal, or should check into the laws regarding it, they can be held liable. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1183 "2021-02-22T05:23:14Z")
And the hits just keep comin’: [FBI Reportedly Probing Roger Stone's, Alex Jones' Possible Links To Capitol Violence [Video]](https://www.aol.com/news/fbi-reportedly-probing-roger-stones-143042803-173320182.html) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1184 "2021-02-22T16:24:17Z")
A clean conscience makes a soft pillow. The MyPillow Guy has the hardest one: > **[Dominion files $1.3 billion defamation lawsuit against MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell](https://www.axios.com/2021/02/22/dominion-mike-lindell-defamation)** > > He's the latest Trump ally to face a multibillion-dollar lawsuit over baseless election conspiracy theories. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2021, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1185 "2021-02-22T20:08:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not so much. _ **Cheek v. United States** _ , 498 U.S. 192 (1991) would disagree. Also _Lambert v. California_ , 355 U.S. 225 (1957). The courts have ruled that when a _reasonable person_ should know something is illegal, or should check into the laws regarding it, they can be held liable. This is wrong. The general rule is that ignorance of the law is no excuse. There are rare exceptions to that. One of the rare exceptions, discussed in Cheek, is that, if confusion caused by the extreme complexity of the tax code causes a person to not file, or take a deduction, etc. that would otherwise be unlawful, that may be an excuse, even if unreasonable. But subscribing to a theory that the income tax is unconstitutional is not that kind of confusion. In Lambert, the issue was a city ordinance requiring a felon to register within a certain number of days in the city. The court said that there had to be proof of actual notice of the requirement to register, because essentially, it was an affirmative requirement to act, and a person wouldn’t be expected to know of the obligation or seek out knowledge of it. Those are very narrow exceptions to the general rule of being expected to know the law. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=60)