# 7 Jan 2021 and beyond - the aftermath of the storming of the Capitol **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 8, 2021, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020 "2021-01-08T10:28:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 80
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2021, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1586 "2021-05-07T20:20:39Z")
I just hunted furiously for the ‘like’ button for all the above answers. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2021, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1587 "2021-05-09T07:34:18Z")
Newsmax’ apology is absolutely pathetic and if you want to understand how America got into this situation, look no further than decisions like this. For months they have guests on, and editorialize about how Dominion is run by Hugo Chavez, and the stone cutters or whatever bullshit. Then, to make amends they just need to write, not broadcast, a non-apology about one employee of Dominion. Well, I’m sure all their viewers are well informed now 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1588 "2021-05-10T11:44:39Z")
Something I saw on Twitter the other day: "1923: Hitler’s failed coup. No real consequences. No fundamental changes. 1933: Hitler takes power. When a coup attempt goes unpunished, it becomes a training exercise." ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1589 "2021-05-11T22:20:51Z")
This oughta be interesting tomorrow: > **[Pentagon chief during Jan. 6 riot defends military response](https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-riots-capitol-siege-government-and-politics-4b8b610f6ea5404e0eec1609e820300e)** > > President Donald Trump's acting defense secretary during the Jan. 6 Capitol riots is defending his response to the attack. > [@](#): > > President Donald Trump’s acting defense secretary during the Jan. 6 Capitol riots plans to tell Congress that he was concerned in the days before the insurrection that sending troops to the building would fan fears of a military coup and could cause a repeat of the deadly Kent State shootings, according to a copy of prepared remarks obtained by The Associated Press. > > Christopher Miller’s testimony is aimed at defending the Pentagon’s response to the chaos of the day and rebutting broad criticism that military forces were too slow to arrive even as pro-Trump rioters violently breached the building and stormed inside. He casts himself as a deliberate leader who was determined that the military have only limited involvement, a perspective he says was shaped by criticism of the aggressive response to the civil unrest that roiled American cities months earlier, as well as decades-old episodes that ended in violence. > > The Defense Department, he will tell members of the House Oversight Committee on Wednesday, has “an extremely poor record in supporting domestic law enforcement,” including during civil rights and anti-Vietnam War demonstrations in the 1960s and 1970s. > > “And some 51 years ago, on May 4, 1970, Ohio National Guard troops fired at demonstrators at Kent State University and killed four American civilians,” Miller will say, adding, “I was committed to avoiding repeating these scenarios.” > > He will also deny that Trump, criticized for failing to forcefully condemn the rioters, had any involvement in the Defense Department’s response and will say that Trump had even suggested that 10,000 troops might be needed for Jan. 6. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1590 "2021-05-11T22:24:00Z")
“We allowed a coup attempt to happen because we were afraid people would think a coup attempt was happening.” Yep. That checks out. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1591 "2021-05-11T22:28:59Z")
If I ever rob a bank, I’m gonna tell the court that I was just concerned for the safety and well-being of all that money, as the bank obviously wasn’t doing much to protect it. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1592 "2021-05-11T22:33:07Z")
To be fair, I’m glad the military didn’t get involved. Not a Rubicon I wish to cross. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1593 "2021-05-11T23:24:32Z")
Yeah, I’m in agreement. People would have been losing their shit if a trump general was moving in troops on the day of the vote. Unless something egregious comes up I’m gonna give the military a pass. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2021, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1594 "2021-05-11T23:28:55Z")
In advance, yes. But when it was happening and there were calls for the Guard? ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1595 "2021-05-12T01:11:37Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > He casts himself as a deliberate leader who was determined that the military have only limited involvement, a perspective he says was shaped by criticism of the aggressive response to the civil unrest that roiled American cities months earlier, as well as decades-old episodes that ended in violence. > > The Defense Department, he will tell members of the House Oversight Committee on Wednesday, has “an extremely poor record in supporting domestic law enforcement,” including during civil rights and anti-Vietnam War demonstrations in the 1960s and 1970s. > > “And some 51 years ago, on May 4, 1970, Ohio National Guard troops fired at demonstrators at Kent State University and killed four American civilians,” Miller will say, adding, “I was committed to avoiding repeating these scenarios.” Translation: “Everybody criticizes the military when we shoot at white people.” ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1596 "2021-05-12T01:44:40Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > But when it was happening and there were calls for the Guard? AAIUI, the National Guard can only respond in DC when ultimately approved by the Secretary of Defense. That would have been a Trump toadie, Christopher Miller, who was the Acting Secretary of Defense at that moment. So it wasn’t a military decision or operation. As I recall, Governor Hogan of Maryland had a National Guard unit ready to deploy, but heard nothing from those in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1597 "2021-05-12T07:27:29Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > As I recall, Governor Hogan of Maryland had a National Guard unit ready to deploy, but heard nothing from those in charge. I think, it retrospect, that this was one of those occasions were it would have been better to ask for forgiveness than permission. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1598 "2021-05-12T15:10:51Z")
That’s really not the way military command works… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1599 "2021-05-12T15:12:13Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I think, it retrospect, that this was one of those occasions were it would have been better to ask for forgiveness than permission. > [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > That’s really not the way military command works… Yeah, when live weapons are involved, “permission” is really a must-have and “forgiveness” not particularly useful. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1600 "2021-05-12T15:23:21Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > That’s really not the way military command works… Not a fan of _Auftragstaktik_, are you? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1601 "2021-05-12T16:16:51Z")
This is exactly the analogy to consider and keep in mind. Hitler and the Nazis initially attempted to use force to overthrow the German government, which failed. They realized that brute force couldn’t destroy the institutions they wanted to control, so they instead attempted to weaken those institutions, to obstruct governance, and to divide the electorate through polarization. Even these tactics didn’t work until the Great Depression. They exploited a crisis. That is what they’re waiting for now: a crisis to exploit. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1602 "2021-05-12T16:21:10Z")
The next step toward authoritarianism and civil unrest in America, the politicization of the military has begun for real: > **[More than 120 retired generals and admirals wrote to Biden appearing to back...](https://www.businessinsider.com/former-generals-admirals-letter-question-election-biden-health-2021-5)** > > The letter published by "Flag Officers 4 America" appeared to advance a false conspiracy theory that the 2020 election was illegitimate. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1603 "2021-05-12T16:25:24Z")
I’ll follow up and offer this: it wouldn’t surprise me at all if there is now, or eventually, a nexus between Putin, oligarch-backed Russian criminal gangs, global/transnational ethno-nationalist movements, and conservative politicians, such that they collaborate to deliberately undermine their own nation-states. Take the attacks on the Colonial pipeline, as an example. I see no moral compunction that would prevent right wing extremist politicians and organizations here from winking and nodding at Putin and “non-state sponsored” agents in attacking critical infrastructure to justify fomenting national outrage against liberal politicians. I see no compunctions about that - at all. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1604 "2021-05-12T16:27:39Z")
ETA: ref the post about the letter from the retired generals/admirals. Some fraction of retired flag officers being over-the-top jingoistic and seeing a commie under every bush are hardly something new. About once a year since I was a kid somebody says something really stupid. The problem today is the ability of RW media to proclaim this is new, different, and that this bunch of guys is somehow a majority well-thought out position. And thereby convince 150 million RW-besotted zombies that this is accurate info. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1605 "2021-05-12T16:49:48Z")
I agree that having cranky retired generals or law enforcement officials going full-on crazy uncle is nothing new, but the demassification of media and social media tools that the average crazy uncle general has at his disposal gives them new power to influence and disrupt debate, and it gives them amplified powers when it comes to inciting others to act. Indeed, it is this development, as with other advents such as crypto currency, that lead me to question whether liberal democracy and the modern ‘open’ nation-state are viable. If you look at a country like Russia or China, you realize that the nation state could exist indefinitely; it’s not necessarily obsolete. But the nation-state that is open to any kind of innovation that can become more ubiquitous faster than policymakers can craft policies to address their threats may not be able to survive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=79) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=81)