# 7 Jan 2021 and beyond - the aftermath of the storming of the Capitol **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 8, 2021, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020 "2021-01-08T10:28:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 94
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1867 "2021-07-02T13:27:40Z")
Just so we’re not talking past each other, I consider IFB (Independent Fundamentalist Baptist) churches to be a cult. It’s a position that is not without controversy and this thread is probably not the place for that discussion. As far as I know, Adam Kinzinger has never publicly referred to that group as a cult, but he discusses breaking with them in this Atlantic article. > **[The Man Who Refused to Bow](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/02/man-who-refused-bow/618156/)** > > Adam Kinzinger says he’ll fight to take his party back from Donald Trump. It may be paywalled, here’s a quote. _Kinzinger was raised as an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist until he was 20, but the experience left him alienated. “That was a really damaging, in my mind, a very damaging religion” he said. I asked him why._ _“The best way to put it is that your salvation is by faith alone unless you do something wrong - then you were never saved in the first place.”, he said. And by the way, we have these really strict rules that you have to follow that no one can follow, but everyone at the church is going to act like they are and you’re the only one that isn’t._ So I believe that when he was talking about his family being brainwashed by conservative churches, he was speaking broadly, not just referring to their unhinged adulation to Trump. Brainwashing is kind of a full spectrum procedure, an altering of the victim’s thought processes - it’s usually not about just one thing. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1868 "2021-07-02T17:07:42Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Just so we’re not talking past each other, I consider IFB (Independent Fundamentalist Baptist) churches to be a cult. And you’re not the only one. > **[I Fired God](https://books.google.com/books?id=RMfcQHk6hdoC&newbks=0&hl=en)** > > A compelling memoir and account of the Independent Fundamental Baptist church and its shocking history of religious abuse.Jocelyn Zichterman was born, raised, married into, and finally, with her family, fled the Independent Fundamental Baptist... > **[Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) Cult Survivors (And their Supporters)...](https://cstroop.com/tag/independent-fundamentalist-baptist-ifb-cult-survivors-and-their-supporters/)** > > Posts about Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) Cult Survivors (And their Supporters) written by Chrissy Stroop Look who else was raised IFB! > **[Breaking: Leadership of Josh Duggar's Treatment Center Allegedly Involved in...](https://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2015/08/breaking-leadership-of-josh-duggars-treatment-center-allegedly-involved-in-sex-abuse-coverup.html)** > > Earlier this week Josh Duggar checked into Reformers Unanimous (RU), a Christian residential addiction treatment program in Rockford, Illinois, run by North Love Baptist Church and co-founded by the church's authoritarian Independent Fundamentalist... ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1869 "2021-07-02T17:36:08Z")
Some anti-trump Republicans are staying and fighting for their party, some are investigating going third-party, some are going Dem and trying to pull them toward (what they perceive as) the center. Splitting their forces in this manner means that all will be ineffective. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1870 "2021-07-02T17:43:47Z")
So you’re saying that this tactic is ineffective even in scenarios that are not actual horror movies? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1871 "2021-07-04T04:43:21Z")
Well, they _definitely_ shouldn’t go off and have sex together in the dark, abandoned old barn. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1872 "2021-07-04T04:47:32Z")
No honor among thieves, er, traitors: > **[Oath Keepers turn on each other as they scramble to secure Capitol riot plea...](https://www.rawstory.com/oath-keepers-riot-2653648268/)** > > According to a report from the Daily Beast's Kelly Weill, members of the Oath Keepers militia-- reportedly comprised of former law enforcement officers and military vets -- are breaking ranks and pointing fingers at each other as they pursue plea... ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1873 "2021-07-04T05:46:45Z")
In case you haven’t seen it yet, the NYT published an absolutely stunning visual investigation that goes over everything they know so far over the Capitol Insurrection and a minute by minute play of the day. An amazing piece of journalism. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/jWJVMoe7OY0/maxresdefault.jpg "Day of Rage: How Trump Supporters Took the U.S. Capitol | Visual Investigations") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWJVMoe7OY0) ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1874 "2021-07-04T13:18:52Z")
I highly recommend the Jocelyn Zichterman book you linked to, it’s possibly the best cult memoir I’ve ever read — in addition to talking about her horrific personal experiences, she delves into the structure of the group and talks about their substandard educational system and their alliance with political conservatism. The thing is, and I think is relevant with regards to January 6th, there are millions of Trump supporters that are members of a cult. I’m not talking about QANON or some metaphorical “Cult of Trump”. I’m saying that they were _literally_ members of a cult before Trump entered the political scene. I’m not talking about a single group, but multiple generational cults that are usually centered around a fundamentalist religion. Many of these groups have been deeply political for years, note how Kinzinger talks about how he was raised to believe a Democrat couldn’t be a Christian. Cults love Trump. His two biggest print cheerleaders are two cult-owned newspapers, The Epoch Times -owned by the Chinese Falun Gong cult and the Washington Times, owned by the Moonies. These groups seem motivated by a dissonant combination of red white and blue rah rah patriotism and anti-government sentiment, and Trump managed to play into all of it. They love his authoritarianism and they couldn’t care less about his moral failings…….he’s not a prophet, he’s a weapon sent by God, a hammer. Trump isn’t the problem, the problem is the millions of people that were waiting for God to send them a big hammer. And, just for fun, here’s Don Jr. engaging in macho gun play with a high level member of an extremely noxious polygamous cult, playing with guns made in their own cult-owned munitions factory - which the US government is trying to seize because it’s part of a billion dollar fraud scheme. You can’t make this stuff up. > **[Donald Trump Jr. appeared in promotion for gun company run by prominent...](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-jr-desert-tech-riles-promotion-nicholas-young-the-order-polygamous-group-utah/)** > > The government is trying to seize Desert Tech's headquarters, originally purchased by members of the sect who entered guilty pleas in a $1.1 billion fraud scheme. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1875 "2021-07-04T19:11:21Z")
From [cbsnews.com](http://cbsnews.com) articvle: > [@](#): > > In the 6-minute video, Young paints a dark picture of life outside The Order’s sheltered society. “I’m Nicholas Young, Number 72,” he begins, later adding: “If I was to, you know, meditate and pray about protecting The Order from the evil forces, (feminists) would be the greatest forces that I would want to fight against, because they would infiltrate our young children and destroy The Order from the inside.” So did the parenthetical thingy rhyme with, oh, “patsy”? What other juicy tidbits would such beliefs hold in store? > [@](#): > > “It’s not really newsworthy stuff. I mean, it’s just going to the range and shooting. So I didn’t expect to have everybody be calling me,” Young said. But Young did acknowledge having Desert Tech’s marketing team on hand to photograph Trump Jr. wearing a Desert Tech hat and using its firearms. Yeah none of that icky kind of attention, please. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1876 "2021-07-05T14:17:01Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > From [cbsnews.com](http://cbsnews.com) articvle: > > [quote] In the 6-minute video, Young paints a dark picture of life outside The Order’s sheltered society. “I’m Nicholas Young, Number 72,” [/quote] > > Yeah none of that icky kind of attention, please. FYI, this cult actually ranks their high level members (the numbered men), with the rankings changing annually, reflecting things like how much money they brought in and their success in keeping their wives and children in line. While 72 may not seem like a very high number, it’s high status in a cult with over 10K members ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2021, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1877 "2021-07-06T00:52:40Z")
I posted this in a Pit thread, but I wanted to drop it here in case you haven’t seen it. For those who are doubting that this was a real insurrection attempt, apparently some of these groups of “peaceful patriots” had amassed a weapons arsenal and staged a “quick reaction force” in a hotel across the VA state line, 10 minutes from DC, and maybe another one on a nearby farm in Virginia. They had very detailed plans for transporting those weapons to the Capitol and handing them off to the insurrectionists. Maybe not incredibly realistic plans- some of them expected LEO’s to take their side, and there was some really ill-conceived plan to transport the weapons across the Potomac by boat……but no one ever accused these guys of being smart. The link has surveillance footage of the insurrectionists bringing large quantities of weapons into the hotel. > **["One if By Land, Two if By Sea:" What We Know of the Oath Keepers' January 6...](https://www.emptywheel.net/2021/07/04/one-if-by-land-two-if-by-sea-what-we-know-of-the-oath-keepers-quick-reaction-force/)** > > Early in the Oath Keeper investigation, the claim to have an armed Quick Reaction Force to descend on DC if things went haywire seemed like the product of Thomas Caldwell's boasts. But since then, the government has provided evidence that at least... ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2021, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1878 "2021-07-07T13:12:55Z")
Meanwhile, in the USCPD: > **['They need a radical restructure': Six months after January 6, Capitol Police...](https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/06/politics/six-months-jan-6-capitol-police-radical-restructure/index.html)** > > Amid mounting concern about a fresh wave of pro-Trump violence in August, more than a dozen current and former Capitol Police officers, Capitol security officials, lawmakers and aides tell CNN that not nearly enough has been done to address the... ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2021, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1879 "2021-07-08T13:28:58Z")
The third time is not always the charm, apparently: > **[Man who wore horns in riot lose 3rd bid for jail release](https://apnews.com/article/az-state-wire-michael-pence-capitol-siege-bcca91f3853fb5f0e04940f50c4cadaf)** > > A Phoenix man who stormed the U.S. Capitol during the Jan. 6 riot while sporting face paint, no shirt and a furry hat with horns has lost his third bid to be released from jail. A federal judge in Washington concluded Tuesday that Jacob Chansley... ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2021, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1880 "2021-07-08T13:34:12Z")
> [@](#): > > …the Phoenix man carried a spear into the attack and wrote a note to then-Vice President Mike Pence that said, “It’s only a matter of time, justice is coming.” Guess he was right. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1881 "2021-07-08T15:40:34Z")
Just not the way he thought he was! ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2021, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1882 "2021-07-08T20:33:45Z")
[![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2krXq8fw90) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2021, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1883 "2021-07-08T20:42:26Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > …the Phoenix man carried a spear into the attack and wrote a note to then-Vice President Mike Pence that said, “It’s only a matter of time, justice is coming.” > > Guess he was right. - He guessed wrong about where the tip of the spear would wind up. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2021, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1884 "2021-07-08T21:39:34Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The third time is not always the charm, apparently:   > [Man who wore horns in riot lose 3rd bid for jail release | AP News](https://apnews.com/article/az-state-wire-michael-pence-capitol-siege-bcca91f3853fb5f0e04940f50c4cadaf) **Ann\_Hedonia** has a marvelous interpretation of this over in the NEW SRIOTD thread: > [@NEW Stupid Republican Idea of the Day (Part 1)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/911140/6142): > > I read in the P+E forum that the lawyer for the QANON Shaman made another plea for pretrial release. Then I read the actual court documents with the arguments they made and the court response. Based on these documents, here’s what I think happened in that courtroom. Judge - Oh, it’s you again? Are you still unclear on the meaning of the word “no”.? Lawyer - We have new evidence as to why our client shouldn’t be in jail! Judge - I seriously doubt it. Bring it on, but make it quick. Lawyer… ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1885 "2021-07-13T13:14:23Z")
Check this out: > [@](#): > > A Florida man who was part of a white supremacist prison gang when he served time for attempted murder pleaded guilty Monday to joining the mob that stormed the U.S. Capitol, and will be released from jail this week after serving six months for his role in the Jan. 6 riot. > > Michael Curzio, who has been locked up since Jan. 14, is the first of [more than 500 people charged](https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-dc-wire-capitol-siege-government-and-politics-98baf0b213e507e5f3f6f32b78583cbd) with federal crimes in the Capitol attack to be sentenced to time behind bars. He was sentenced to six months after pleading guilty to a misdemeanor charge, but gets credit for the time already served and will be released on Wednesday. > **[Man tied to violent prison gang pleads guilty in Jan. 6 riot](https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-government-and-politics-prisons-race-and-ethnicity-capitol-siege-70da4013a673c17bf63b34d992b38a9e)** > > A Florida man who was part of a white supremacist prison gang when he served time for attempted murder has pleaded guilty to joining the mob that stormed the U.S. Time served already. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/1886 "2021-07-13T14:15:49Z")
Florida Man strikes again! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=93) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020.md?page=95)